Recognized by Council Schine/Council-run Server

[MacThule]

This is a suggestion, but I firmly believe that it's not optional if Schine wish to prevent their project from being covertly tanked over time for the entertainment of a small group of players within the greater Starmade community.

There are a few players willing (and able) to pay to host a server as their private trolling grounds. They currently do and have been for a long time. The owners then can & do bring in alternate identities (alts) as admins and from there overtly abuse their powers. The owners maintain a form of plausible deniability over the situation through alts, thereby keeping clean public faces here in the forums as respected members of the community. When a particular badmin alt starts becoming too problematic, it is sacrificed as a scapegoat. New alts can always be seasoned and voted in as a new admin by the admin team.

The specific nature of the abuse is pretty much one-trick, and is less damaging to new players (who may or may not even continue playing Starmade anyways) than it is to journeyman players who are interested in playing this game long-term. A player who has invested weeks or months into building an impressive homebase is targeted either secretly or on some thin premise of violating non-existent rules. Their HB protection is removed, and the admins and/or their alts or associates arrive to destroy the base and steal all the ships and materials opened up by breaking the HB protection.

Of course an admin need not do this, because they can admin-spawn anything without ever earning or stealing resources. So this is overt trolling/griefing with the sole purpose of crushing and infuriating the player target, who is then told they were at fault or simply banned after the trolls get their lulz over the inevitable rage-out. If the victim or another witness attempts to appeal to the server owners over the incident, a polite blow-off is given "we'll look into it" or "we've investigated the logs and find nothing out of the ordinary."

That is what is happening, what has been happening for a long time now (years). The perpetrators are well-known and well-respected here and conduct this business entirely through false identities.

The victims aren't new players who may or may not stick with the game anyway, they are players who have invested enough time to potentially be long-term additions to the community.

I believe that possibly hundreds of potential long-term members of this community have been driven off either as victims or witnesses of this outrageous behavior on one of Starmade's busiest and most popular servers, and not unreasonable assume that this is the best Starmade has to offer.

When I first started this game I passively watched this happen to two other players, then I was next and realized it was an inevitable outcome and there was no point in investing months in building and play time since it would surely be undone at the whim of some capricious badmin. I quit for several months, then eventually came back and realized that it was only one server that just happened to be one of the most popular and that MOST Starmade servers are safe.

But new players don't know this. Many will conclude that since the server is so popular, this is the standard in Starmade and there is no point in wasting time with this game.

Some may be pretty resilient, but many will be instantly driven away forever, leaving the Starmade project one player less. The popularity of the server means that a large number of players will be drawn in and exposed to this.

Over months and years how many hundreds of potential Starmade assets have been lost for this small group to get their lulz?

Is such a threat to the game's long-term existence of concern to Schine? To Schema?

If so, efforts must be made to find viable ways to create a Schine or Council run official server or set of servers. Because Schine has a vested interest in preserving the player experience over their own cheap laughs.

Not reasons why it "can't possibly happen," but ways it CAN happen. So that if new players get shafted by badmin trolls on one popular server, they will know at least that it wasn't the official server and that such behavior is not the standard in this game and may decide pursue other servers instead.


NOTICE: Please take discussion of why Schine can never fund/host a server to another thread.

I'm normally open to all opinions, but since the problem this suggestion is addressing is about trolling/abuse/harassment, if you hijack this thread with garbage about how it can't happen, I will assume you are trolling/harassing to derail this topic and report you instantly. I'm absolutely not interested in claims that it's impossible for a game development company to successfully run a server, since that's obviously false on its face.

I'm only interested in hearing about economical & intelligent solutions to the problem.

 

[Reilly Reese]

I'd expect to at some point near maybe Beta a Schine Official Server.

 

[terra mining corp.]

I play single player just for this reason(ok i'm not a great builder also and don't spend a lot of time playing), but an official server might bring me and a lot of others in.

 

[Master_Artificer]

You should have a paid copy of starmade to be able to log in.

That might generate the revenue to support the server and more.

 

[SkylordLuke]

speaking as a normal starmade player,this would be nice!

..i volunteer for a mod/admin :D :D :D

 

[Edymnion]

Oh yeah, if there was an official server where only paying players were allowed in, that was run by Schine, I'd move to it in a heartbeat.

It would have to be vanilla, and thats my favorite kind of server. No crazy ass mods, nothing cranked to outlandish proportions, and no worrying about "Will this server even still be here in 2 months?". That would be perfect.
[DOUBLEPOST=1459883010,1459882932][/DOUBLEPOST]Oh, and I volunteer not to be a mod on said server. I abuse the hell out of the admin teleport command when I have it.

 

[Criss]

We will eventually need to play long term as a team to ensure the game works or is balanced. This is something we discussed but it isn't something we planned anytime soon.

 

[CyberTao]

You should have a paid copy of starmade to be able to log in.

That might generate the revenue to support the server and more.

Would need to point out that though most companies do pay for their servers via sales, it's mostly through a % of the sales. If a server costs 100 dollars a month, and averages about 100 players a month, you'd only need to charge each player an additional $2.40 on the sale. The problem is most of use already own the game, and would not be adding to the running costs.

There is also the method of how to select mods, and then how to monitor said mods (cause there is gonna be a lot of them, and not all will be good). Then there is language and pings and server location.


I don't know, it's not my cup of tea in the slightest, so I cant even be assed to hype it. There is a lot of problems and things that need working out besides Admins and costs.

 

[SkylordLuke]

Would need to point out that though most companies do pay for their servers via sales, it's mostly through a % of the sales. If a server costs 100 dollars a month, and averages about 100 players a month, you'd only need to charge each player an additional $2.40 on the sale. The problem is most of use already own the game, and would not be adding to the running costs.

There is also the method of how to select mods, and then how to monitor said mods (cause there is gonna be a lot of them, and not all will be good). Then there is language and pings and server location.


I don't know, it's not my cup of tea in the slightest, so I cant even be assed to hype it. There is a lot of problems and things that need working out besides Admins and costs.

luckily,we have tons of people close to us that are experienced with running big servers :D

hell..I would be down to contibuting each month to keep it running

 

[Reilly Reese]

It would have to be vanilla

Now here we need server wrappers though. Much extended meta and flexibility.

 

[Edymnion]

Now here we need server wrappers though. Much extended meta and flexibility.

I'd like to see a lot of what we use wrappers for now built into the final game eventually.

Things like bank storage for credits (had a suggestion thread a while back for bank vault blocks, actually), being able to give money directly without having to drop it as a block, etc. I've also seen a wrapper that would let you use !core to get one free core every 10 minutes. Was very useful for people who don't normally carry a stack of them in their inventory like I do and get stuck out in the middle of nowhere. Made for a great life boat.

 

[MacThule]

Monitoring admins is easy, for server owners who WANT to monitor them.

Simply log on from time to time under an anonymous alt account and directly observe or play on the server to see what's happening.

Restricting admins to individuals with established corresponding accounts here and requiring them to use their forum handle is also probably a good step towards preventing admins from being nothing more than disposable shells to use for trolling.

Conducting admin elections here in the forums, with any game-owner being allowed to vote would be another good step.

Numbers-wise, I would expect a Schine server to see a lot of player demand, even if it was capped at 50 players on at one time and had strict mass caps to protect performance. Safety is the main issue, not insane server performance. When we look at busy servers with 5-20 players on at a given time, we can be pretty sure they're actually hosting several times that many active players who have different play times throughout the day. So assuming a Schine server would have 100-150 regular players seems safe. All those players having bought the game still wouldn't cover the outlay though, and Schine isn't yet at the point of being able to raise significant funding from merchandising (as Minecraft does) (the only major obstacle to this though would seem to be fan numbers, which affect how much a franchise like Star Wars would be willing to pay Schine to push branded merchandise. Cultivating & preserving fan numbers is exactly what the OP is about, of course, because allowing a few loose cannons to weekly cull out invested game owners / fans is trashing Starmade's potential.).

Of course if 150 server members each paid $10 for an annual membership to play on the official server it would more than cover the server costs, be affordable for any budget, and not cause much trouble. That'd be $1,500/yr above game sale revenue - more than enough to fund a very nice MP server for the year and maybe even spill back over into development...

Membership could be handled through the registry system; verified player accounts that had paid for official server access here would be able to log in. Authentication is already in place, all that's needed is a purchase feature on the Docks.

Again - this isn't something I think Schine is at all obligated to do or "would be cool."

This is something I think Schine needs to do to protect its player base from a powerful source of constant erosion. Depending on how the numbers crunch, it could actually be turned into a positive source of development funding even in the $10-20/yr per member range (I don't think monthly fees are worth the hassle, personally. Get people to pay their dues up front and if they drop before the year is up, they're out a cup of coffee or two). Not every SM player will be interested, but many will.

Consistently active players may not even be the correct predictor of membership fees. Many players would purchase access then drop off pretty quickly, either retreating to SP, other MP servers, or leaving. Their contribution would still be part of the annual server fund though.

Hell, with a paid-access official server available, troll badmins in private servers might even be a kind of asset to Schine. Players initially hesitant to shell out $10 for server access would get burned in the bush leagues and many who enjoyed the game up until that point would seriously reconsider paying for access to a proper server where badmins wouldn't erase all their work on a whim.

 

[Sachys]

Of course if 150 server members each paid $10 for an annual membership to play on the official server it would more than cover the server costs, be affordable for any budget, and not cause much trouble. That'd be $1,500/yr above game sale revenue - more than enough to fund a very nice MP server for the year and maybe even spill back over into development...

This is likely (due to various conversion rates, local wages etc) to be an issue for some, if not many of the players though.
I'd rather not see a steam "server DLC" or regional pricing to help cover that (I actually prefer to get DRM free as possible, and all in one package), BUT... it could be an early means to an end I suppose - at least during the continuation of the Early Access phase.

Otherwise, I agree. Entirely.

Edit: in regards to steam / regional pricing etc, it seems (from my myriad of friends across the globe) to be reasonably easy to get steam wallet codes or sell cards as needed to purchase games when the conversion rates are high. I'd rather not rewrite my entire post, so hopefully that gives you an idea of the lines i was thinking along.

 

[Reilly Reese]

Monitoring admins is easy, for server owners who WANT to monitor them.

Simply log on from time to time under an anonymous alt account and directly observe or play on the server to see what's happening.

Restricting admins to individuals with established corresponding accounts here and requiring them to use their forum handle is also probably a good step towards preventing admins from being nothing more than disposable shells to use for trolling.

Conducting admin elections here in the forums, with any game-owner being allowed to vote would be another good step.

Numbers-wise, I would expect a Schine server to see a lot of player demand, even if it was capped at 50 players on at one time and had strict mass caps to protect performance. Safety is the main issue, not insane server performance. When we look at busy servers with 5-20 players on at a given time, we can be pretty sure they're actually hosting several times that many active players who have different play times throughout the day. So assuming a Schine server would have 100-150 regular players seems safe. All those players having bought the game still wouldn't cover the outlay though, and Schine isn't yet at the point of being able to raise significant funding from merchandising (as Minecraft does) (the only major obstacle to this though would seem to be fan numbers, which affect how much a franchise like Star Wars would be willing to pay Schine to push branded merchandise. Cultivating & preserving fan numbers is exactly what the OP is about, of course, because allowing a few loose cannons to weekly cull out invested game owners / fans is trashing Starmade's potential.).

Of course if 150 server members each paid $10 for an annual membership to play on the official server it would more than cover the server costs, be affordable for any budget, and not cause much trouble. That'd be $1,500/yr above game sale revenue - more than enough to fund a very nice MP server for the year and maybe even spill back over into development...

Membership could be handled through the registry system; verified player accounts that had paid for official server access here would be able to log in. Authentication is already in place, all that's needed is a purchase feature on the Docks.

Again - this isn't something I think Schine is at all obligated to do or "would be cool."

This is something I think Schine needs to do to protect its player base from a powerful source of constant erosion. Depending on how the numbers crunch, it could actually be turned into a positive source of development funding even in the $10-20/yr per member range (I don't think monthly fees are worth the hassle, personally. Get people to pay their dues up front and if they drop before the year is up, they're out a cup of coffee or two). Not every SM player will be interested, but many will.

Consistently active players may not even be the correct predictor of membership fees. Many players would purchase access then drop off pretty quickly, either retreating to SP, other MP servers, or leaving. Their contribution would still be part of the annual server fund though.

Hell, with a paid-access official server available, troll badmins in private servers might even be a kind of asset to Schine. Players initially hesitant to shell out $10 for server access would get burned in the bush leagues and many who enjoyed the game up until that point would seriously reconsider paying for access to a proper server where badmins wouldn't erase all their work on a whim.

Spoiler: Forgot to put this in my first post here.

 

[Gamel]

Talking about server

I want to bring this back up: Server to Server Gate/Portal?

I would love to link my server to Schine/Council-run server and only allow paid player to play

 

[MacThule]

Talking about server

I want to bring this back up: Server to Server Gate/Portal?

I would love to link my server to Schine/Council-run server and only allow paid player to play

I believe this is a great suggestion, I even made the same suggestion at one point myself. It doesn't necessarily address the problem of Schine's project being constantly bled of support by a stubborn pack of troll-badmins in a minority of servers though, and that is my intent. Simply relying on the good nature of people on the internet to not tank a project is naive and isn't working. Good players are being lost to outrageous abuses.

Rooting out the admins responsible won't help because they will simply shed skins and re-brand themselves as they have in the past.

The only way I see to stop the bleeding is to offer fledgling players a safe place to play.

This wouldn't force anyone to pay to play, because private servers would still exist.

It wouldn't burden playing Starmade with additional fees because SP & public MP would still be valid options.

It would only offer the option, so those wanting a legitimate playing field and are willing and able to pay could do so if desired.

Honestly, my bent is to set the membership fee on the higher end ($15-20/yr) so that those opting into a Schine server are contributing substantial additional resources to development. Potentially thousands of dollars every year over and above the outlay for the server. A minimum fee ($5-10) might cover the core cost, but not be worth the hassle. Besides, I think we'd all like to see a reasonable path for more resources to find their way to the project.

And yeah... I would love to see the ability to pass through a wormhole into other servers though, be that a network that included only private servers, only Schine servers, or a variety.

 

[Madman198237]

I really disagree with memberships, so I disagree with you all on the yearly subscription/cost for access to a single server. I'd be OK, however, with a server run by Schine only for members.


However, this game is free to play, and so most people aren't going to start on the server that requires money.....they're going to try others first. So perhaps we could give people new to the game a set number of hours of time on the server for free, or a set number of days during which they can try out the server. This would allow new players to see the GOOD side of SM, and then get interested by a (Hopefully) friendly community and their constructions, leading to more players then buying the game, if only (While the game is still free) so they could play on a good server where they already have some constructions.

 

[Edymnion]

However, this game is free to play, and so most people aren't going to start on the server that requires money.....they're going to try others first.

This is true, or at least it is for now. Schine could easily disable the use of fan servers and use only their own servers after the alpha period ends.

But I agree that people would try the free servers first, just like people will try the free samples at the mall first before going and buying a plate. People who like what they see will pay for it, and the ones that won't aren't the ones you need to cater to anyway, as they were never going to pay you in the first place.

 

[MgnfcntBstrd]

I really disagree with memberships, so I disagree with you all on the yearly subscription/cost for access to a single server. I'd be OK, however, with a server run by Schine only for members.


However, this game is free to play, and so most people aren't going to start on the server that requires money.....they're going to try others first. So perhaps we could give people new to the game a set number of hours of time on the server for free, or a set number of days during which they can try out the server. This would allow new players to see the GOOD side of SM, and then get interested by a (Hopefully) friendly community and their constructions, leading to more players then buying the game, if only (While the game is still free) so they could play on a good server where they already have some constructions.

The problem with this is that creating new accounts to troll the official servers at no cost for a few hours would be a constant thing.

 

[Madman198237]

Right...maybe track IPs? Although there's way to get around that as well.

Limit accounts per IP? As in, one? Limit accounts per internet address?


Blast it, you, why couldn't you leave the logic out of the idea?

Ah well, there's a solution somewhere, I hope. Maybe just have a "demo server" instead? Except I suppose that there'd still be trolls...

Only solution's probably going to be constant admin policing. Maybe the spawn sectors could become some sort of training ground for new players, like the tutorials.