Fix StarMade, Release the frakkin API!

[ShadowPilot]

So here we are after 5 years of development. Granted the milestones have been pretty successful but not successful enough with the time frame given.

This community has loads of coding geniuses. Megacrafter, Bobbybighoof, etc. Yet we toss this potential to improve the game and engine in a more expedited way to safeguard an engine code.

We time and time again throw the API on the backburner for features so ridiculous as Race Gates, when in all reality that should have been a MOD. Allowing the devs to fix the issues with the game whilst modders go to town on content.
Think of all the features that could have been released had this API and other modding features been implemented 3 years ago like Schine planned.

Need an Idea, take a look at Space Engineers Community Mods. Captain chairs, sleepable beds, controlled drone rigs, functional autominers, etc. The list goes on and on. The modders have satisfied the community with content while allowing SE Devs to focus on real features like MASSIVE PLANETS and ground warfare.

Can we please put EGOS aside and just release the Modding tools to our community let them fix the game on the content side. It's their hobby

 

[Bench]

While I agree the community has a lot to contribute, we're not at the point where an API would be appropriate. I know we've said that a lot, but honestly there's some major parts of the game still yet to go that we would like to see go in first, before tackling the API.

This isn't because we think the community can't and won't be able to adapt to what we have planned or adjust as the API expands. It's more that, honestly, we have some incredible ideas and some incredible plans that will dramatically expand just how much the community can contribute to the game. We've seen it so far in a basic form with the community content section and the mods that have still been able to be made. What we have planned goes way beyond that. But in order for that to work we need to actually put the foundations in place, and go from there. At this stage the API wouldn't be the best course of action because there's still so many major fundamental aspects of the game that will change for the better, and the API will need to support all of that.

That probably still doesn't feel like an answer that suffices. And I'm not saying the day won't come when we'll sit in awe of what the community has created within StarMade and the StarMade API. I want that day to happen. And I hope that, knowing that, the community can trust that delaying the API is in the best interest of everyone, because what we want to do, what we want to add, and what you'll be able to do within the API because of it, will blow your minds.

I wish I could tell all we have planned. We're dreaming big, bigger than you probably realise. I feel like some in the community might be thinking well why not release the API, we know what StarMade as a game is going to be, it's just a space sandbox game right? How much more can there be to it.

To them I say, if you think StarMade is going to be just another space sandbox like Space Engineers, then think again.

 

[Edymnion]

So here we are after 5 years of development. Granted the milestones have been pretty successful but not successful enough with the time frame given.

And its been ONE GUY for most of those 5 years. But its okay, the entire dev team has now ballooned to... three guys!

Seriously, dude, relax. Its their game, its got an incredibly limited number of people working on it, it will take some time. Let them get the game at least moderately finished before they start officially supporting large scale modding. Last thing we need is a fractured development base where different builds are incompatible with each other due to player made mods.

 

[Gasboy]

I'll just point at Minecraft and its lack of API. If this community's coders are as genius as you say, and I have no doubt that they are, they can and will come up with a mod such as Forge for Minecraft.

As with Minecraft, for a good portion of the Starmade's early development was done by one person. An API was (and likely still is) low on the list of stuff that needs doing.

 

[ShadowPilot]

the community can trust that delaying the API is in the best interest of everyone, because what we want to do, what we want to add, and what you'll be able to do within the API
because of it, will blow your minds.

At what point does waiting for a small dev team to implement content, which takes away from development of an economy, tutorials, and needed features become feudal. The content that is being worked on now has only further complicated the game. Not improved it. If you fail to see this we should really examine servers stability and activity.

Delaying such an API is not in our best interest, releasing the API is in everyone's best interest.

1. Takes content pressure off of you.
2. Allows most remedial updates to content to be micromanaged by the community rathed than yourselves
3. Alleviates the need for a large scale staff to progress the game.

We're looking at mid year before we even see an economy fix due to us being focused on things that are redundant to progress. Currently people log on check the new update wait for the next. Rinse. Repeat. They don't feel interactive in the process to further the game.

 

[Ithirahad]

I'll just point at Minecraft and its lack of API. If this community's coders are as genius as you say, and I have no doubt that they are, they can and will come up with a mod such as Forge for Minecraft.

As with Minecraft, for a good portion of the Starmade's early development was done by one person. An API was (and likely still is) low on the list of stuff that needs doing.

Forge has to be updated every update before it can work because every update re-scrambles all the names and parts of all the code (never mind the fact that it has to be compatible with actual functionality changes). It only works for Minecraft because there is a long time between updates. That won't work here, not for a long time.

 

[Gasboy]

Forge has to be updated every update before it can work because every update re-scrambles all the names and parts of all the code (never mind the fact that it has to be compatible with actual functionality changes). It only works for Minecraft because there is a long time between updates. That won't work here, not for a long time.

Yes, I realize that Minecraft isn't updated as often as StarMade. However, not every StarMade update breaks everything. A StarMade Forge-like mod could work, albeit with frustration. And your point itself should explain why an API wouldn't work at this time: Stuff is changing every patch, and they would likely have to modify the API to take incremental patches into account.

 

[ShadowPilot]

Seriously, dude, relax. Its their game, its got an incredibly limited number of people working on it, it will take some time

Yea your right it's their game, but here's a shocker. Without players the game is dead. Especially those of us who financially backed starmade. Recognizing those funds probably weren't used to pay for staff, rather went elsewhere. Could you blame anyone for being upset on the progress of the game. Without players the financial backing stops as does game progress due to developers not receiving fair compensation for effort. Now there are those who do it for hobby, even there is no greater motivation for success than the monetary gain following long hours of labor. A business can only starve itself of funds so long before its bankrupt. Unlocking the potential of a community is the only self sustaining source of progress.


As to you gasboy. The engine's source code is locked, you can not properly integrate mods without a backdoor to the engine itself. The most we can do now is script codes to send Admin commands and change block values or create blocks along with physical states. Without an API or a released engine we can't even release a Third Party Client like Forge.

We're stuck under the control of what we're allowed not what we as a community can achieve alongside the devs. I find it odd that other developers embrace modding Arma 3, SE, ATS, etc. Giving the power to the players to choose the direction.

While we slap a bandaid on it calling it the player council and expect the dev team to really take heed to the players views. In the end the council can suggest things, schema can still say fuck you, and the game stays on the path THEY want it. While an API opens up the only real path to player direction control and we view it as something that must be held back. I don't foresee the community lasting much longer if the players can't be integrated into the development direction, and no I'm not talking about an "elected" council that whispers in your ear as you ultimately ignore it. I'm talking allowing us to help beyond uploading a cluster of blocks to the site.

 

[Monchoman45]

APIs aren't free - schema would have to spend time keeping the API up to date. It probably wouldn't be backwards compatible, since we're still in alpha, which means that every update would probably break something - and we get a lot of updates. You'd spend a lot of time waiting for your mods to have new versions released for them.

I also don't really think any game should outsource content creation to its community. Vanilla minecraft is still a good game; so is skyrim. Giving up on content and making the community fix it is what shitty devs do when they run out of kickstarter money.

Per bench, have a little faith. Schema clearly has enough money to hire two new devs, so it's not like we're headed down the toilet. Starmade is a great game that isn't advertised anywhere; if we need to pick up more players we can do that later.

 

[ShadowPilot]

Also before anyone comments "Its an Alpha" let me squash that crap right here. No game stays in "Alpha" for nearly five years. Alpha is for basic concept design. Not releases to "race gates" and "pink blocks" an Alpha is to get the Economy, Faction, Engine, Resources, etc into stability. After the basic game design. Then comes beta, bugfixes, last minute supplemental content, and testing.
Then final review and release. Starmade has been ALL over the board on this. It's like an ADHD child that forgot its Ritalin. We need to get the basics down before we focus on additional update content. Quarters should be the last of our worries when we have neither a faction system nor economy that is even close to working.

Give the players the API we'll make quarters ourselves. Hell we'll even code a beer bottle in his quarters that he can drink. Meanwhile you guys focus on the engine itself and stability and functionality of such features.
[DOUBLEPOST=1459177490,1459177392][/DOUBLEPOST]Damn, too late

 

[Monchoman45]

Did you even read bench's post? They don't have the basics down yet. They're planning a lot more basics that don't exist yet.

I'm also not sure you understand how simple race gates are. They're a copy/paste of warpgate code; it probably took schema an hour to do.

 

[Groovrider]

Also before anyone comments "Its an Alpha" let me squash that crap right here. No game stays in "Alpha" for nearly five years. Alpha is for basic concept design. Not releases to "race gates" and "pink blocks" an Alpha is to get the Economy, Faction, Engine, Resources, etc into stability. After the basic game design. Then comes beta, bugfixes, last minute supplemental content, and testing.
Then final review and release. Starmade has been ALL over the board on this. It's like an ADHD child that forgot its Ritalin. We need to get the basics down before we focus on additional update content. Quarters should be the last of our worries when we have neither a faction system nor economy that is even close to working.

Give the players the API we'll make quarters ourselves. Hell we'll even code a beer bottle in his quarters that he can drink. Meanwhile you guys focus on the engine itself and stability and functionality of such features.
[DOUBLEPOST=1459177490,1459177392][/DOUBLEPOST]Damn, too late

NPCs need quarters for factions to work. The faction system needs to work before the economy can work. These are the basics.

 

[Lecic]

Especially those of us who financially backed starmade.

Said the guy who doesn't have Starmade purchased?

Speaking as someone who actually bought Starmade, I say, let Schema take his fucking time with his API if he wants to. The core features of the game aren't done yet, which you've said so yourself, so why are you pushing for an API right now?

Additionally, I'd rather NOT have a crappy, incredibly fractured playerbase like SE or Minecraft does. Does splitting our relatively small playerbase among dozens of tiny, incompatible groups sound like a good idea to you?

 

[Gasboy]

Also before anyone comments "Its an Alpha" let me squash that crap right here. No game stays in "Alpha" for nearly five years. Alpha is for basic concept design. Not releases to "race gates" and "pink blocks" an Alpha is to get the Economy, Faction, Engine, Resources, etc into stability. After the basic game design. Then comes beta, bugfixes, last minute supplemental content, and testing.
Then final review and release. Starmade has been ALL over the board on this. It's like an ADHD child that forgot its Ritalin. We need to get the basics down before we focus on additional update content. Quarters should be the last of our worries when we have neither a faction system nor economy that is even close to working.

Give the players the API we'll make quarters ourselves. Hell we'll even code a beer bottle in his quarters that he can drink. Meanwhile you guys focus on the engine itself and stability and functionality of such features.
[DOUBLEPOST=1459177490,1459177392][/DOUBLEPOST]Damn, too late

First off, you have something against pink? And comparing Starmade to someone with ADHD is pretty insulting. You want to make an argument that people will respond rationally to, you'd find people respond better when you leave out such comparisons.

Secondly, it doesn't matter how long a game stays in alpha. This isn't the 1980s where you were basically stuck with the game you bought, little to no chance of getting it updated. A game can stay in "greenlight/alpha/beta" for extended periods of time.

EDIT: Lets say you make a successful game. Lets say 1 million people buy your game, and play it for one hour. That's 115 YEARS of time people just put into your game. The only way you can test over and over again to make sure your game can stand up to the infinite combinations of OS, CPU, GPU, RAM and so on, is to have extended alpha and beta periods.

Next, if you think you have game design down perfectly, could you please link us to your successful game(s)? No?

Bench has already said that the API will come. Just not before it's ready.

 

[jstenholt]

S

Need an Idea, take a look at Space Engineers Community Mods. Captain chairs, sleepable beds, controlled drone rigs, functional autominers, etc. The list goes on and on. The modders have satisfied the community with content while allowing SE Devs to focus on real features like MASSIVE PLANETS and ground warfare.

Can we please put EGOS aside and just release the Modding tools to our community let them fix the game on the content side. It's their hobby

What an awful argument. Sure, having space engineers community content is great for making a slightly nicer looking ship, but it fractures the multiplayer community and makes joining a server a hellacious nightmare, which is compounded by the fact that that game is an unstable compilation of memory leaks and half-baked designs.

 

[Jananton]

And its been ONE GUY for most of those 5 years. But its okay, the entire dev team has now ballooned to... three guys!

Yes, and you forgot to mention that because of that Schine is now a multi national. :D

For the rest I only can say, patience is a virtue.

Greets,

Jan

 

[Ithirahad]

Yes, I realize that Minecraft isn't updated as often as StarMade. However, not every StarMade update breaks everything. A StarMade Forge-like mod could work, albeit with frustration. And your point itself should explain why an API wouldn't work at this time: Stuff is changing every patch, and they would likely have to modify the API to take incremental patches into account.

Nah; if it were an in-house API it might extend the development cycles a bit but it wouldn't cause too much trouble, I don't think. Aside from when big bugs arise :P

 

[Nauvran]

is this a joke? this sounds like a big joke

 

[Gonzalo]

is this a joke? this sounds like a big joke

the guy doesnt seem to be joking, by simply open sourcing will open up so many more possible features to possibly have, while the vanilla game will remain the exact way schine wants it to be. there really isn't much of a reason to not do it, and there will come so much benefits from it .

 

[Monchoman45]

the guy doesnt seem to be joking, by simply open sourcing will open up so many more possible features to possibly have, while the vanilla game will remain the exact way schine wants it to be. there really isn't much of a reason to not do it, and there will come so much benefits from it .

No one is against a mod API; it'll totally be great. It's just that adding a mod API now won't solve OP's problems, and bench did a pretty good job of explaining why.