I know its Alpha but...

[AtraUnam]

What about the existing exploits that have been around for years and years?

 

[Malacodor]

Can't say that anyone here complaining about the problem of half-assed features is wrong. It's actually something that the rest of the council and I mentioned pretty frequently in our discussion with the devs.

Useful council is useful, thank you!

 

[Ratchet Hundreda]

The game is really bad right now at introducing itself to new players. This is actually something which is a bigger issue than the developers seem to think. Early access game development is a popular thing nowadays however that does not mean it works better than other development methods. Early access is good for advertisement and it's a good testing tool. Neither of which the developers utilize properly in StarMade's case which makes early release pointless and something which has more negative effects than positive.

If the game would be developed in a way that features are built upon each other it would make sense because in that case the way the game is introduced gets most of the work first which makes the life of alpha testers easier. However in StarMade's case features are being developed all over the place which leaves introductions sloppy and testing a pain in the ass. In addition the game isn't even open source which makes things even more inconvenient for people who would be willing to provide constructive feedback. This ruins the impression of palyers who would be interested in the game because the game is just alienating ...

My advice would be that if the developers really want to keep this developing method just stop with trying to impress people with frequent updates on features which are inappropriate. It will just bring more frustration. I know there are many who are willing to overlook things like this but the truth is most people don't. Make updates less regularly but with more refined features and improvements on more than just 1 or 2 fields and first try to focus a bit on proper ui features clear item descriptions with pictures and stuff and a proper tutorial. Otherwise this method will ruin this game.

 

[jontyfreack]

well the tutorial is being worked on. a new spawn station has been created, new factions are being created. basically the features like a new tutorial cannot be implemented yet, because they are being made currently, and will rely on some more features that are being developed.

the focus is currently on getting the tutorial done, but for that to happen all this other stuff needs to be done before it can even be implemented.

 

[Ratchet Hundreda]

Spoiler

well the tutorial is being worked on. a new spawn station has been created, new factions are being created. basically the features like a new tutorial cannot be implemented yet, because they are being made currently, and will rely on some more features that are being developed.

the focus is currently on getting the tutorial done, but for that to happen all this other stuff needs to be done before it can even be implemented.

That's why i said if so much preparation is required for such a simple feature putting out small updates which only cover parts of the preparation is frustrating and makes early release pointless. New releases shouldn't be made till the ground is layed down for the main feature to be developed.

Another solution would be to simply cancel the early release but that's a bit complicated since it's been going for a while so it would shock the community. Simply the focus shouldn't be on putting out small regular updates but more sparse updates so the developers have time to prepare for the main feature and create enough content to bring a build which would attract people and assure the growth of the community rather than it's fall.

 

[jontyfreack]

New releases shouldn't be made till the ground is layed down for the main feature to be developed.

that is the point of the releases. to lay down the ground for the main feature.


the focus isn't on putting out small regular updates (the focus is getting the spawn station and all its requirements implemented), but that is how things would have to go, as we are alpha testers and each small update has to be tested by the community for any improvements (now fleets can mine thanks to the community pointing out some problems with the basis of fleets that needed to be fixed before any improvements to the system could be implemented. but this also brought with it some problems that need to be addressed, such problems however would be fixed by another feature)

I hate to say this, but space engineers had an update every Thursday for quite some time, each update brought something slightly new to the game, broke some things, but they all lead up to the big update that was the main goal from quite some time ago, planets. you see in order for a big update to happen, all the smaller stuff has to already be in the game for it to work.


I suggest you watch the official twitch streams every Tuesday and Thursday at some time that I cannot off the top of my head remember (I just go on when I get the notification) there you can ask some questions about a few development processes and why the smaller features have to be already in the game before this (not as simple as you think) feature is implemented. basically the new tutorial relies on the new spawn station being finished, the new factions with their corresponding fleets to be finished, and for fleets and sh*t to work-ish. then we can get our shiny new tutorial that we all want.


so I say to anyone, be patient, suggest a few things that need to be fixed sooner rather than later (*cough* exploits *cough*) and again be patient, schine knows roughly what they are doing, and demanding something earlier than it can be implemented is not helping in any way, so is suggesting they wait until they have something fleshed out before releasing it.

because it is still alpha, and alpha is the stage where new features are added. and this year is mainly rp focused so the new tutorial is under way, we had fleets, we are getting crew and NPC's, we are getting so much that people demand that the game needs. already the main mechanics are in place, now is time for the gameplay to be put in place.

 

[Ratchet Hundreda]

Spoiler

that is the point of the releases. to lay down the ground for the main feature.


the focus isn't on putting out small regular updates (the focus is getting the spawn station and all its requirements implemented), but that is how things would have to go, as we are alpha testers and each small update has to be tested by the community for any improvements (now fleets can mine thanks to the community pointing out some problems with the basis of fleets that needed to be fixed before any improvements to the system could be implemented. but this also brought with it some problems that need to be addressed, such problems however would be fixed by another feature)

I hate to say this, but space engineers had an update every Thursday for quite some time, each update brought something slightly new to the game, broke some things, but they all lead up to the big update that was the main goal from quite some time ago, planets. you see in order for a big update to happen, all the smaller stuff has to already be in the game for it to work.


I suggest you watch the official twitch streams every Tuesday and Thursday at some time that I cannot off the top of my head remember (I just go on when I get the notification) there you can ask some questions about a few development processes and why the smaller features have to be already in the game before this (not as simple as you think) feature is implemented. basically the new tutorial relies on the new spawn station being finished, the new factions with their corresponding fleets to be finished, and for fleets and sh*t to work-ish. then we can get our shiny new tutorial that we all want.


so I say to anyone, be patient, suggest a few things that need to be fixed sooner rather than later (*cough* exploits *cough*) and again be patient, schine knows roughly what they are doing, and demanding something earlier than it can be implemented is not helping in any way, so is suggesting they wait until they have something fleshed out before releasing it.

because it is still alpha, and alpha is the stage where new features are added. and this year is mainly rp focused so the new tutorial is under way, we had fleets, we are getting crew and NPC's, we are getting so much that people demand that the game needs. already the main mechanics are in place, now is time for the gameplay to be put in place.

I got your point however, this still leaves the game alienating for a good majority of people who are new to StarMade and would like to get into the game for a long time which would be the original problem the creator of the thread was talking about. I can actually relate to this becasue almost the exact same thing happened to me as well.

Just like him i told 2 of my pretty close friends about this game and how amazing it is, invited them to play but it worked out horribly. They just didn't have the patience for asking around how exactly to do this and that or to look up almost like every single thing which of many would be actually essential for standard gameplay. It was frustrating for them and after 1 and a half hour of misery they gave up and now they don't want to hear ever again about this game becasue they think it's garbage when it's not. From the current population of the servers and just a plain estiamte of the current popularity of the game i conclude that there must be a reason for the lack of interest towards StarMade and i have a hunch that this problem could be a major factor to that. Like i said it's just bad at introducing itself at this point in time and till porper tutorials are introduced and i believe this has a way more serious impact on the community than most would think.

I understand how alpha releases work and what to expect from them i personally do not have such problems because i have patience for things like this but unfortunately many don't. I did and still do participate in many other game's early access period and i also know that Space Engineers didn't suffer as much from this problem in it's "planet preparation" period simply because it had many other more polished features which compensated for that. StarMade has way more broken features compared. Keen Software House followed a formula which worked out better for them in my opinion. In Space Engineers case they implemented new things polished them and then broke them with new features then they polished everything again and only then start to break things again. That's why the game was enjoyable even before the pre planet period. I see StarMade's development method like this: Implement new features maybe polish them a little bit till it's barely functional and then add new features which just breaks even more stuff. This results in a game with a ton of stuff and seemingly endless opportunities but it's broke as hell and it's just barely playable. I know they try to work hard on optimiztions and bug fixes just not hard enough. Could be becasue of the high demand on new things like you mentioned, i don't see into this enough to say.

It's still actually something which can work out in the long run and result in a revolutionary game but the fact that the community will suffer from it is undeniable. I personally do not worry about upcoming features. I worry about the game's future. I worry that this way there won't be enough support to make this game live up it's full potential after all the developers do need to eat so they can work on the game and that handful of people helping in testing won't be enough to make it in long term.

I think this may be a problem which can not be adressed in many ways so it probalby won't be anyways. The gist of all this would be to point out this problem at this point in time. I know there isn't much else to it but at least it's something to learn from.

 

[jontyfreack]

well said.

I would also like to point out to people who are new to this game. the fortnightly update system is still relatively new for the very small dev team who are actually coding the game, and as such starmade is just about beginning to get some features that will be able to tide players over until a decent tutorial is implemented. (by small dev team I mean its like 3 people, it was only 1 for a couple years, and back then the development of the game was hectic and it is only recently that the plan for development has been sorted out to a point that something can be followed)

and in the mean time, I think sitting with the person, or talking to them will have to suffice for a tutorial, at least until later this year.

after some thought I believe that all the issues will be addressed soon. like you say the game has tonnes of features, but those features are broken and make the game just about playable. however because of how the early development of starmade went, things such as making said features of the game FUN and playable, have had to been put on hold until one of the other planned features has been put in place, so that newer feature will not be horribly broken to a point that the game is unplayable.


now for a short history lesson that might be funny to some: last year when the first community council was voted in, a tomato was voted in, quite rightly so, because said tomato had a very high amount of votes in favour of the berry. unfortunately the tomato was not exactly known for being overly good in the community, having punished some players on a server a bit too harshly, and because of that not many on the council were overly fond of said tomato. this tomato pushed forth the idea of balancing the game and "fixing" it a bit too soon, and the tomato was turned into tomato sauce, and evicted from the council...and has since started making his own game.

the moral of the story is to understand that plenty of other stuff has to be fixed and implemented before the rest of the game can be fixed. in this case, things like NPC's and fleets need to be sorted out, before shipyards can be completed, before exploits can be handled, before the tutorial can be finished, before crews can be implemented, before the game can be fully playable and really fun. and all this is because, it is in alpha, not beta yet.

and I fully understand your point, and the op's point. the only reason I understand power is because (literally the day before I started a massive faction war that progressed onto the forums...by accident) some guy showed me on a server. and currently the only way people are going to be able to understand this game is if people show them what to do, until the tutorial can be implemented.





so who's going to do the summoning rights for one of the dev team? so they can chip in on all this?

 

[Gasboy]

Nevermind, wrong thread.

 

[nightrune]

I'm pretty sure the devs have read it at this point. They'll comment as they see fit. I really just needed to get that off my chest.

 

[Ratchet Hundreda]

Spoiler

well said.

I would also like to point out to people who are new to this game. the fortnightly update system is still relatively new for the very small dev team who are actually coding the game, and as such starmade is just about beginning to get some features that will be able to tide players over until a decent tutorial is implemented. (by small dev team I mean its like 3 people, it was only 1 for a couple years, and back then the development of the game was hectic and it is only recently that the plan for development has been sorted out to a point that something can be followed)

and in the mean time, I think sitting with the person, or talking to them will have to suffice for a tutorial, at least until later this year.

after some thought I believe that all the issues will be addressed soon. like you say the game has tonnes of features, but those features are broken and make the game just about playable. however because of how the early development of starmade went, things such as making said features of the game FUN and playable, have had to been put on hold until one of the other planned features has been put in place, so that newer feature will not be horribly broken to a point that the game is unplayable.


now for a short history lesson that might be funny to some: last year when the first community council was voted in, a tomato was voted in, quite rightly so, because said tomato had a very high amount of votes in favour of the berry. unfortunately the tomato was not exactly known for being overly good in the community, having punished some players on a server a bit too harshly, and because of that not many on the council were overly fond of said tomato. this tomato pushed forth the idea of balancing the game and "fixing" it a bit too soon, and the tomato was turned into tomato sauce, and evicted from the council...and has since started making his own game.

the moral of the story is to understand that plenty of other stuff has to be fixed and implemented before the rest of the game can be fixed. in this case, things like NPC's and fleets need to be sorted out, before shipyards can be completed, before exploits can be handled, before the tutorial can be finished, before crews can be implemented, before the game can be fully playable and really fun. and all this is because, it is in alpha, not beta yet.

and I fully understand your point, and the op's point. the only reason I understand power is because (literally the day before I started a massive faction war that progressed onto the forums...by accident) some guy showed me on a server. and currently the only way people are going to be able to understand this game is if people show them what to do, until the tutorial can be implemented.





so who's going to do the summoning rights for one of the dev team? so they can chip in on all this?

Well, i hope things get adressed in time too. Would really want to see this game be the next best or at least part of the leading titles in the new generation of space games. Would be really sad to see it go to waste.

That tomato must have refrain to be the one thrown at the actors so he sought to became a proud example of his vegetable species even if it had to be in a way he became a tomato sauce but at least a delicious one. Way to go tomato!

Actually the way i got to know the game was in a similar fashion a bit more complicated though. At first i logged on to the server which had the highest player count at that time and thought my chances to know the game would be the highest there. Unfortunately many hours of trying to ask for help i didn't recieve any so i started to figure out stuff myself which didn't work out too much. So i switched servers and only on the third server i logged on had one or two people who had the decency to answer my quetions and helped me to get to know the game better. For that i had to have a way above avarage patientce and also some luck i feel. Later on coming up here reading the forums watching a TON of youtube videos and speaking to people on many servers i realized that the game has an actually really nice community and it came as a suprise compared to how first i felt about it. Maybe people started to get bored of helping others all the time.

Still i hope the community will continue on to be as constructive and amazing as it can be, i personally after the way i got to know the game i never once let the chance to help others slip away and i feel the same about my chances in helping out the developers in any way i can too.

 

[Valiant70]

Can't say that anyone here complaining about the problem of half-assed features is wrong. It's actually something that the rest of the council and I mentioned pretty frequently in our discussion with the devs.

There's good new though, I was told that the devs would be moving towards a different release cycle. Basically, after big updates the next update will be focused on bug fixing (since let's face it, the community is way more effective at finding bugs than the understaffed tester team). Last update was an example of that, it fixed all the major issues with fleets and now we have a working feature instead of the semi-usable thing we got the update before.

If the tendency keeps up it means that feature-breaking bugs will be crushed in a reasonable amount of time, instead of being ignored for months and months before being fixed (looking at you, shipyard bugs).

This really is good news. The shipyard bugs destroyed someone's hard work on my home server. Any word on fixing critical, missing quality-of-life features like entering/leaving a shipyard design core from the shipyard computer? Or will those continue to be ignored for months and months?