Concerns about the new crafting system

[timethatswasted]

I really love the frame work for the new crafting system. No random recipes, and the ability once again to create a true factory chain.

I am a little concerned about one of the new aspects of it though...

I do like the idea of having all the ore inside rocks instead of being random blocks inside planets and asteroids...

So mine rocks -> refine rocks -> get ore -> craft.

But I feel this is going to make delete blocking a planet an even more appealing thing to do, more so then it is now.

I know there will be a system in the future to prevent this... But I feel that we need some sort of bandaid till then.

I would say we either need an item stack limit that can be adjusted via the server config. (Probably the easiest thing to do, but annoying for building)

Or

We need a separate "remove block dimension" in the server config where we can set the max remove area. Similar to the way we can now set the maximum build segments. (Would be harder to implement)

Or

Just make it so any terrain elements deleted with a build block are destroyed rather then placed in your inventory.

None of these fix the issues, but they make it slightly harder to exploit for the time being.

Does anyone else have any concerns based on what they have seen so far?

 

[ToyotaSupra]

'Just make it so any terrain elements deleted with a build block are destroyed rather then placed in your inventory.'

^This. It makes sense and balances it quite well IMHO. And yes, I have some slight concern too but that idea to me would solve it quite well.

 

[Ithirahad]

I'd rather not see planets completely stripped down for resources with salvagers either... Materials need to be either renewable, or have a massive source that doesn't involve uglifying everything.

 

[Firrion]

Of all these i get the feeling stack limit would be the best option. But even that's no good in long term. It should be implemented nonetheless, to balance mining ships, so to speak.
How about just place most resources on asteroids rather than planets? With most of resources in asteroids and as there are definately more asteroids than planets i suppose most players who actually intend to mine and not just wreck things would mine them instead. Also make the default asteroids respawn every now and then - those that were mined only in part, or altered in any way would despawn after a short time. Add asteroids of bigger sizes and/or asteroid fields and it would make them much more profitable to mine than planets. Especially as they become renewable source of ores.
After all that, well, just pray nobody decides to mass excavate on planets.

 

[timethatswasted]

I'd rather not see planets completely stripped down for resources with salvagers either... Materials need to be either renewable, or have a massive source that doesn't involve uglifying everything.

Agreed.

Maybe a mining block that slowly extracts rock and ore from a planet without destroying it? Would be a good reason to actually build a base on and protect a planet.

But I would prefer a "quick fix" for now rather then the design of a bunch of new features. I do like what the DEVs had planned in the long run to prevent this, but I feel this wonderful new crafting system will be greatly diminished.

When recipes were random you didn't know what you would need to get crafting. Now that all recipes start with rocks people will just fly around delete blocking planets.

 

[Ithirahad]

Of all these i get the feeling stack limit would be the best option. But even that's no good in long term. It should be implemented nonetheless, to balance mining ships, so to speak.
How about just place most resources on asteroids rather than planets? With most of resources in asteroids and as there are definately more asteroids than planets i suppose most players who actually intend to mine and not just wreck things would mine them instead. Also make the default asteroids respawn every now and then - those that were mined only in part, or altered in any way would despawn after a short time. Add asteroids of bigger sizes and/or asteroid fields and it would make them much more profitable to mine than planets. Especially as they become renewable source of ores.
After all that, well, just pray nobody decides to mass excavate on planets.

Hm, I like that idea, particularly when asteroid fields and belts are implemented. It wouldn't completely eliminate planet mining, which is fine... But it would discourage it and make it unnecessary.

 

[kiddan]

I really love the frame work for the new crafting system. No random recipes, and the ability once again to create a true factory chain.

I am a little concerned about one of the new aspects of it though...

I do like the idea of having all the ore inside rocks instead of being random blocks inside planets and asteroids...

So mine rocks -> refine rocks -> get ore -> craft.

But I feel this is going to make delete blocking a planet an even more appealing thing to do, more so then it is now.

I know there will be a system in the future to prevent this... But I feel that we need some sort of bandaid till then.

I would say we either need an item stack limit that can be adjusted via the server config. (Probably the easiest thing to do, but annoying for building)

Or

We need a separate "remove block dimension" in the server config where we can set the max remove area. Similar to the way we can now set the maximum build segments. (Would be harder to implement)

Or

Just make it so any terrain elements deleted with a build block are destroyed rather then placed in your inventory.

None of these fix the issues, but they make it slightly harder to exploit for the time being.

Does anyone else have any concerns based on what they have seen so far?

Maybe build blocks should have their own kind of power within the block that lowers when you break/place blocks with it. Then you might need batteries, or it would recharge very slowly. This would keep people from removing huge amounts of land, because it would be annoying.

 

[kiddan]

Agreed.

Maybe a mining block that slowly extracts rock and ore from a planet without destroying it? Would be a good reason to actually build a base on and protect a planet.

But I would prefer a "quick fix" for now rather then the design of a bunch of new features. I do like what the DEVs had planned in the long run to prevent this, but I feel this wonderful new crafting system will be greatly diminished.

When recipes were random you didn't know what you would need to get crafting. Now that all recipes start with rocks people will just fly around delete blocking planets.

Maybe a new beam for ships; The PLEXstractor beam! This beam would extract ores from blocks without breaking them. You could combine effects to them as well to create better mining techniques. Man Schema had better see this one!

 

[timethatswasted]

One thing I have to thank Schema for is how easy it is to customize the crafting system. The options in the Block editor and Recipe editor make is extremely easy for server admins to tweak things to their liking, no more using a txt editor to mess around with that crazy long list of recipes at the bottom of the block editor.

The other concern I have is that if all minerals now come from rock... there is no real appeal at all to flying around mining asteroids.

Before asteroids were more valuable then planets because they would have higher level minerals... now they will literally be useless. I know it wont matter in the long run, and I should probably stop worrying about it... but as someone who helps run a server this is going to be a bit of an issue. I can make build blocks harder to get a hold of... but that's not very fun.

 

[whiterhino16]

Ok, I have to make this a ranty post. I try to avoid them, but there is no other way to say how much I hate the build block balancing schema added recently:

Spoiler: Rant

I swear this sounds like something that a random person who has hardly ever played the game puts in suggestions. "Build blocks are overpowered, I know! Lets make it so only recently added ores can be sold at shops!" Not to mention, this came as a surprise. I actually checked the update log, And guess what I found?

This means that the after the L2-L5 ores already changed, the L1 ore will soon turn into pure rock types. Please be sure to sell them if you don't need it.

Along with this, I found out at a shop. With an inventory half full. In a ship dedicated to mining I just spent a hour or two on. JUST GREAT. Now the economy is even worse with things like ice crystals, previously fairly valuable are now WORTHLESS!

Basically, now you cant sell most natural things at shops. If you where building a mining ship, forget it. It won't be any value now because of how shops work.

 

[GaeasSon]

Two words, people... SPACE DRUIDS!
Mine all you want, but disturb X percent of the biology on a planet and the freaking space druids will come for you! I've seen it man! They are like pirates, but their ships are green and they are ruthless! They got my friend Bob! Used him fir fertilizer, they did. They also re-groom abused worlds, replanting trees, and y-holes everywhere. They even have been known to leave presents for those who replant planets. Just don't get on their bad side!