Read by Council An Idea Regarding Shipbuilding Businesses on Servers

    What do you think of this?

    • Wonderful! This is an amazing idea!

      Votes: 0 0.0%
    • Might be bad, might be good.

      Votes: 0 0.0%
    • I don't really want it, it's fine the way it is.

      Votes: 0 0.0%
    • Other (Please elaborate in a post)

      Votes: 0 0.0%

    • Total voters
      6

    Daeridanii

    Detail Devil
    Joined
    Jan 16, 2016
    Messages
    115
    Reaction score
    138
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Legacy Citizen
    Okay, so at some point in our Starmade "career," we've all probably made a little shipbuilding "business" that turned out to be boring and just an excuse for RP that doesn't really work. So here's my suggestion:

    Anyone who purchases a blueprint of a ship gives a portion of the money to the builder.

    Why? Because then you could actually make a "business" off of making ships, and actually make a profit from your work. Of course, it would have to be relatively small, 5-10% of the overall cost, but I think it's a good idea, what about you?
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Lecic
    Joined
    Feb 22, 2015
    Messages
    869
    Reaction score
    179
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen
    Or just not make the blueprint available. Then they have to come to you and buy the completed ship.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: jgames666

    jayman38

    Precentor-Primus, pro-tempore
    Joined
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages
    2,518
    Reaction score
    787
    • Purchased!
    • Thinking Positive
    • Legacy Citizen 4
    This may be implied in the original post: The price of the blueprint should include the seller's mark-up.

    (Maybe this mark-up could be an optional variant value entered when saving the blueprint, so that it is not necessarily limited to 10%. Maybe Joe Masterbuilder could increase his markup to 100%, while Noob McGreenhorn might sell his blueprint with only a 1% markup. Meanwhile, Paragon Von Donator might sell his blueprints with 0% markup.)
     

    sayerulz

    Identifies as a T-34
    Joined
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages
    616
    Reaction score
    179
    • Community Content - Bronze 1
    • Legacy Citizen 3
    This is definitely a good feature, particularly since many factions are supposed to in some way be shipbuilding based, either designing them or manufacturing them. I think that this could be further improved though. Have NPC run shipyards spawn around the universe where players can purchase ships. At first, they simply sell whatever a servers default blueprints are. However, a player can sell them a blueprint in exchange for a certain share of their profits from other players purchasing it. This would be less profitable than manufacturing the ships themselves and selling them directly, but much easier.
     

    Reilly Reese

    #1 Top Forum Poster & Raiben Jackpot Winner
    Joined
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages
    5,140
    Reaction score
    1,365
    • Legacy Citizen 8
    • Thinking Positive
    • Purchased!
    This is definitely a good feature, particularly since many factions are supposed to in some way be shipbuilding based, either designing them or manufacturing them. I think that this could be further improved though. Have NPC run shipyards spawn around the universe where players can purchase ships. At first, they simply sell whatever a servers default blueprints are. However, a player can sell them a blueprint in exchange for a certain share of their profits from other players purchasing it. This would be less profitable than manufacturing the ships themselves and selling them directly, but much easier.
    This is the most acceptable version since there isn't much stopping other players from stealing the blueprint and selling them for themselves.
     

    Daeridanii

    Detail Devil
    Joined
    Jan 16, 2016
    Messages
    115
    Reaction score
    138
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Legacy Citizen
    Or just not make the blueprint available. Then they have to come to you and buy the completed ship.
    The problem is that this has a number of ways to exploit it; the buyer doesn't know if they're getting what everyone else is, and the seller doesn't know if they'll just be attacked and the ship stolen.

    This may be implied in the original post: The price of the blueprint should include the seller's mark-up.

    (Maybe this mark-up could be an optional variant value entered when saving the blueprint, so that it is not necessarily limited to 10%. Maybe Joe Masterbuilder could increase his markup to 100%, while Noob McGreenhorn might sell his blueprint with only a 1% markup. Meanwhile, Paragon Von Donator might sell his blueprints with 0% markup.)
    I like this idea, it gives control of the prices and demand to the seller.

    This is definitely a good feature, particularly since many factions are supposed to in some way be shipbuilding based, either designing them or manufacturing them. I think that this could be further improved though. Have NPC run shipyards spawn around the universe where players can purchase ships. At first, they simply sell whatever a servers default blueprints are. However, a player can sell them a blueprint in exchange for a certain share of their profits from other players purchasing it. This would be less profitable than manufacturing the ships themselves and selling them directly, but much easier.
    Also a good idea, but would you sell it to the NPCs in general, or only to one shipyard?

    This is the most acceptable version since there isn't much stopping other players from stealing the blueprint and selling them for themselves.
    This is still possibly the biggest problem; anyone can sell a blueprint, whether or not they made it. A "code" for each blueprint could be implemented, a set only the creator would know, and these "coded" blueprints could be the only ones that could be sold with the markup.

    And thank you everyone for showing interest in a poor noob's ideas. :D
     

    NeonSturm

    StormMaker
    Joined
    Dec 31, 2013
    Messages
    5,110
    Reaction score
    617
    • Wired for Logic
    • Thinking Positive
    • Legacy Citizen 5
    OK here is the problem:

    Builder A builds a ship rated with 1000 awesome points.
    Builder B builds a ship identical in role and size, but only gets 850 awesome points.
    Builder C builds a third alternative and gets 800 awesome points.

    Builder A gets all the credits and builder B+C are left behind. Just of puny 20% points that may even merely depend on how it is presented or how high it is placed on the list.


    It is good if you have competition, but without real competition (when it's either too high or too low settled) it's a stupid system.


    Just like with Microsoft-Windows. You need it because you need Word to read your boss' document. You need it because some flawed stuff only runs in IE or a software that only works on Windows (Power Point).
    It makes profit from legal copyright-law which is intended for a fair market but isn't fair, because it's a drug.

    Your school-mate tells you about an awesome game. In 70% it's windows-only and 10% it works on Linux .


    And how does this relate to SM? Well, you get more money the better you build. You build better the more ships you can view. You can view more ships the more money you spend.
    Use A to get B. Use B to get C. Use C to get even more A.


    It doesn't matter if you apply this to the real world and Microsoft, SM and space-ships or whatever.
    As long as popularity and list-ranking introduces EXPONENTIAL GAIN IS EVIL in an environment which should be fair.
     

    Reilly Reese

    #1 Top Forum Poster & Raiben Jackpot Winner
    Joined
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages
    5,140
    Reaction score
    1,365
    • Legacy Citizen 8
    • Thinking Positive
    • Purchased!
    OK here is the problem:

    Builder A builds a ship rated with 1000 awesome points.
    Builder B builds a ship identical in role and size, but only gets 850 awesome points.
    Builder C builds a third alternative and gets 800 awesome points.

    Builder A gets all the credits and builder B+C are left behind. Just of puny 20% points that may even merely depend on how it is presented or how high it is placed on the list.


    It is good if you have competition, but without real competition (when it's either too high or too low settled) it's a stupid system.


    Just like with Microsoft-Windows. You need it because you need Word to read your boss' document. You need it because some flawed stuff only runs in IE or a software that only works on Windows (Power Point).
    It makes profit from legal copyright-law which is intended for a fair market but isn't fair, because it's a drug.

    Your school-mate tells you about an awesome game. In 70% it's windows-only and 10% it works on Linux .


    And how does this relate to SM? Well, you get more money the better you build. You build better the more ships you can view. You can view more ships the more money you spend.
    Use A to get B. Use B to get C. Use C to get even more A.


    It doesn't matter if you apply this to the real world and Microsoft, SM and space-ships or whatever.
    As long as popularity and list-ranking introduces EXPONENTIAL GAIN IS EVIL in an environment which should be fair.
    Let the market be free mate. Builder B and C could maybe go out and wreck A's base and when he is gone they fill market >: D
     

    Reilly Reese

    #1 Top Forum Poster & Raiben Jackpot Winner
    Joined
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages
    5,140
    Reaction score
    1,365
    • Legacy Citizen 8
    • Thinking Positive
    • Purchased!
    You have never met a MEGA-COOPERATION's MEGA-BASE.
    Well obviously it takes profit and time to get that big and if they worked hard to get there then they should be rewarded with the market capture they have.
     

    NeonSturm

    StormMaker
    Joined
    Dec 31, 2013
    Messages
    5,110
    Reaction score
    617
    • Wired for Logic
    • Thinking Positive
    • Legacy Citizen 5
    Well obviously it takes profit and time to get that big and if they worked hard to get there then they should be rewarded with the market capture they have.
    You don'T spend a single thought about the customers, or did you?

    Microsoft bought DOS for $50'000 and sold it for a Million to IBM. Apple's first mouse was stolen from another company (maybe Xerox, but I am not 100% sure if my memory is right on the company).

    It wasn't work but theft which brought these companies so far.
    They broke a lot of promises just to make it harder to develope free hardware which can be used by Linux or other competitors.


    And now every company which produces a computer-game for Windows and Apple is like an Advertisement-Snowball-Company.
    Just that these Sub-companies aren't counted in when calculating penalties for breaking laws or promises.
    EDIT: But this is a side-topic.

    Look at the german wikipedia on Microsoft, the english version doesn'T cover nearly as mush negative critique.
     

    Reilly Reese

    #1 Top Forum Poster & Raiben Jackpot Winner
    Joined
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages
    5,140
    Reaction score
    1,365
    • Legacy Citizen 8
    • Thinking Positive
    • Purchased!
    You don'T spend a single thought about the customers, or did you?

    Microsoft bought DOS for $50'000 and sold it for a Million to IBM. Apple's first mouse was stolen from another company (maybe Xerox, but I am not 100% sure if my memory is right on the company).

    It wasn't work but theft which brought these companies so far.
    They broke a lot of promises just to make it harder to develope free hardware which can be used by Linux or other competitors.


    And now every company which produces a computer-game for Windows and Apple is like an Advertisement-Snowball-Company.
    Just that these Sub-companies aren't counted in when calculating penalties for breaking laws or promises.
    EDIT: But this is a side-topic.

    Look at the german wikipedia on Microsoft, the english version doesn'T cover nearly as many negative information.
    But shipyarding in Starmade isn't comparable. Until this suggestion actually exists we don't have companies don't compare modern companies to non-existent ones!
     

    NeonSturm

    StormMaker
    Joined
    Dec 31, 2013
    Messages
    5,110
    Reaction score
    617
    • Wired for Logic
    • Thinking Positive
    • Legacy Citizen 5
    But shipyarding in Starmade isn't comparable. Until this suggestion actually exists we don't have companies don't compare modern companies to non-existent ones!
    It will be when it comes to large factions. They will request more taxes from outsiders and trade builds with each other freely.

    EDIT: Why should a faction not share blueprints it disassembled/hacked/griefed/boarded with other faction-mates for free? Small factions will be at disadvantage completely !!!
     

    Reilly Reese

    #1 Top Forum Poster & Raiben Jackpot Winner
    Joined
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages
    5,140
    Reaction score
    1,365
    • Legacy Citizen 8
    • Thinking Positive
    • Purchased!
    It will be when it comes to large factions. They will request more taxes from outsiders and trade builds with each other freely.

    EDIT: Why should a faction not share blueprints it disassembled/hacked/griefed/boarded with other faction-mates for free? Small factions will be at disadvantage completely !!!
    You act like they aren't already at a disadvantage. Not everything can be fair or should be fair you know.

    Besides factions don't share their tech!
     

    NeonSturm

    StormMaker
    Joined
    Dec 31, 2013
    Messages
    5,110
    Reaction score
    617
    • Wired for Logic
    • Thinking Positive
    • Legacy Citizen 5
    Big cooperation do TRADE tech.

    Ever heard of the reduced life-span of light-bulps or woman stocking/sock which started laddering AGAIN?
    But hey, we don't have faction politics now, this will NEVER EVER happen TO US … keep dreaming :p We will see who is right in the future when this gets implemented and dooms the community.
     

    Reilly Reese

    #1 Top Forum Poster & Raiben Jackpot Winner
    Joined
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages
    5,140
    Reaction score
    1,365
    • Legacy Citizen 8
    • Thinking Positive
    • Purchased!
    Big cooperation do TRADE tech.

    Ever heard of the reduced life-span of light-bulps or woman stocking/sock which started laddering AGAIN?
    But hey, we don't have faction politics now, this will NEVER EVER happen TO US … keep dreaming :p We will see who is right in the future when this gets implemented and dooms the community.
    I'm just pointing out that those who get big deserve what they get and that unlike the real world you can actually wipe them off the face of the server if you need to.
     

    Daeridanii

    Detail Devil
    Joined
    Jan 16, 2016
    Messages
    115
    Reaction score
    138
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Legacy Citizen
    The whole point of my idea was for a builder to be rewarded from their own work. I presented the "codes" so that it could be confirmed that it was their work. This is my whole idea:

    If the combined cost of the blocks in Supermegadestroyer1 is 1 000 000 credits, then the owner should be able to collect 10% (100 000 credits) from anyone spawning the ship.

    And Neon, where are you going at with all the awesome points, etc? I'm just suggesting a portion of the cost goes to the builder.
     

    NeonSturm

    StormMaker
    Joined
    Dec 31, 2013
    Messages
    5,110
    Reaction score
    617
    • Wired for Logic
    • Thinking Positive
    • Legacy Citizen 5
    And Neon, where are you going at with all the awesome points, etc? I'm just suggesting a portion of the cost goes to the builder.
    It's about where it is placed on the list and how it is presented.

    Imagine 2 versions of "StarGate - PuddleJumper". You would try out both. But if the list is long enough that you can't find the second, you gonna test the one which already got a higher rating and is first seen.

    It's about the self-reinforcing publicity for one alternative despite the other being better (see blue-ray)
     
    Joined
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages
    2,932
    Reaction score
    460
    • Hardware Store
    and that unlike the real world you can actually wipe them off the face of the server if you need to.
    A government could do that IRL if they wanted to. It just has to pass a law prohibiting said corporation from selling, shipping, mining, farming or manufacturing in their country. It doesn't wipe them off the face of our planet, but it wipes them off a country. And a server can be seen similar to a country.
    A truly free market with no regulation whatsoever has a big weakness: Once a monopoly forms, which will happen eventually if it isn't regulated, all its benefits are null, as the monopoly can do however they please without any risk, as there is no competition, that customers could choose. the exception to that rule would be governmental monopolys in democracies, as they will still need to be voted in by the people, a group to which nearly all their customers belong.
    However, a market in a game is never without regulation, as the game's mechanics will always regulate what can be traded in which ways.
    When ever resource is distributed evenly, it is impossible to form a monopoly, as anyone at any location can become a competitor, that will be able to undercut the monopoly. Now the monopoly could offer their goods at a price lower, than they pay while acquiring their goods, but the moment they stop with that, they need to make up for lost money, and at that moment they will be undercut from randomly appearing competition. However, these very mechanics would discourage trading in general, so they aren't the best option, if trade between players is supposed to occur.
    In addition, I don't think this:
    And how does this relate to SM? Well, you get more money the better you build. You build better the more ships you can view. You can view more ships the more money you spend.
    Use A to get B. Use B to get C. Use C to get even more A.
    will occur with too much of an impact, as one does not necessarily need to have a ship to learn how to build it. Sufficient images of a ship can be enough, at least in starmade. And it is unlikely for someone, who managed to become a monopole, to actually forbid anyone to share images of their ships. And then there will always be those, that fund themselves with donations or some other means of getting assets, buying a ship, and just releasing how to build it for no or a very low cost. (This only applies in starmade, as the quality of a block placed on A at X by P is no better, than the quality of a block placed on A at X by Q, and since the means of production in starmade are low cost, so long as you don't speed it up too much)
     

    Daeridanii

    Detail Devil
    Joined
    Jan 16, 2016
    Messages
    115
    Reaction score
    138
    • Community Content - Bronze 2
    • Legacy Citizen
    Imagine 2 versions of "StarGate - PuddleJumper". You would try out both. But if the list is long enough that you can't find the second, you gonna test the one which already got a higher rating and is first seen.
    Granted, this wouldn't work well for replica builds, because there are going to be lots of versions. However, if you make and design a ship yourself, it should work. And then, 10% still isn't much. You could form an old-style shipbuilding business where they come to you if you wanted. I'm just proposing that we have a easier way to do that.
    NOTE: Even if this were implemented, I would hope it would be server toggelable, so if you didn't want it, you wouldn't have to have it.


    It's about where it is placed on the list and how it is presented.
    Simple Solution: Alphabetical lists. This wouldn't completely eliminate the problem, but no problems are completely eliminatable, are they?

    Overall, I don't want to annihilate the current system. I just want to make it easier to use.