Brainstorm This Use total factioned mass to measure influence

[Broomsage]

Ships planets and stations are what you use to claim territory, mine, control, and interact with the environment in starmade. And all of these things have a numerical ranking based on the mass of their components.
Mass can be moved, it can be sold, traded and stolen. Mass can be created by mining and destroyed in war.
With AI modules mass even defends itself.

Faction points are intangible, with no use outside factioning territory. The number of faction points a faction has is determined by the number of players in the faction. The amount of mass a person has is determined by how much time and effort is put in to obtain it.

Problem: There is no real way for a player to deplete a faction's points.
Solution: Factions track total factioned mass in a system, updating like the existing faction point system.

Problem: A new player can easily manage alt accounts and claim territory with just a starter ship and faction blocks.
Solution: A faction must have a certain amount of claimed mass in a system to claim it. A faction must have a certain amount of claimed mass in the claimed system to keep a home base invulnerable. If you move too much mass out of the system or mass is destroyed/captured by attackers, then the home base becomes vulnerable.

Problem: No real reason to explore territory capture pirate stations and claim planets
Solution: Claiming capturing stations and planets creates a buffer of factioned mass for the home base so an enemy must first destroy/capture planets ships and stations to make the home base vulnerable.

Problem: Only one home base.
Allow as many home bases as desired BUT only one per system and only the base in the system with the highest total mass can be invulnerable.
If a base is under attack even if the amount of mass that enters the system is enough to protect the system,
you cannot make the switch until the faction block is reset

Mass should be system local, it makes sense, If you move defenses away from somewhere said defenses cant defend. Mass protects your home base just by being in the same system.

Total mass of weaponry would be most useful as planets and stations can be massive but often do very little to defend themselves or your territory.
Total mass in other categories might be used to determine buffs for mining, power, and shields. (that's been a topic of conversation in the forums lately)

Although the current setup lends to protecting the little guy, this makes building a strategic defense important because enemies would have to fight through most of your resources to attack your home base.
Having a planet or capturing a pirate station should be enough to protect a home base.

You also have to capture or build enough mass to claim a system and have a home base. (Schine wants a player to have to fight to claim a system but this gives an option to just mine and build) It provides something for someone to attack and for you to defend without risking the destruction of what you want protected. (provided your defense is good enough)

Leave a comment I want to know what you think.

 

[terra mining corp.]

this is a good idea with a little polishing would be ok , right now even in single player mode the faction points don't make sense , i'll go out mining and claim systems for the bonus , just to lose them later on because of faction points , it needs a rework.

 

[Broomsage]

The idea basically suggests that faction points and system claims should be replaced with total factioned mass in a system and occupation of territory

Total factioned mass being the amount of physical destructible resources in a system

 

[terra mining corp.]

so would the system mass increase with mined materials and even more for processed materials rather then objects in sector like asteroids and planets?

 

[Broomsage]

Yes of course. The mass of the materials have to be mined and the cargo carrier is still destructible.
That'd be the smart way of taking territory. only its harder than just throwing down a faction block somewhere. For people who don't want to or cant capture a station or planet

Point is it may be efficient and a bit OP but it serves as a method to help people start out.

 

[nightrune]

As a general idea, What if you just had to balance mass versus faction points. I have a few ideas that I'll brainstorm offline before I post.

 

[QuantumAnomaly]

I like this idea, but it definitely needs some brainstorming, since there are a few ways it could be abused. Specifically around homebase/inv protections. If a certain mass is required, no matter what the number is, once could just mine that much, stuff it in cargo on a base, and poof, forever invulnerable.

Something similar with planets, since they're big and full of juicy mass, homebasing a planet would easily claim a system for good, and be invulnerable. If you take away homebasing planets, then A: a new person starting off could have a hard time getting a base set up, and B: you could just mine the planet and stuff it in cargo as above.

Mass of cargo doesnt count? Blob down 50x50x50 hunks of rock and call it a station.

Again, I'm not against this idea at all, I like where it's going. The idea of points of mass in different categories definitely has some tread on it to go places. Just providing those little pokes to eek out the difficult parts of an idea in hopes that we can refine it to the point where it gets implemented.

 

[Broomsage]

Yeah, those are problems. Maybe make home base mass separate, then use mass of the home base to determine how much mass is needed to protect it.

example
Home base mass: 1k. Amount needed to protect base:2k.

 

[kookster]

I like the concept of this idea, I had a idea for redoing faction points, I am going to try to think of a way of merging the two and post it here.

 

[Valck]

I like this idea, but it definitely needs some brainstorming, since there are a few ways it could be abused. Specifically around homebase/inv protections. If a certain mass is required, no matter what the number is, once could just mine that much, stuff it in cargo on a base, and poof, forever invulnerable.

Something similar with planets, since they're big and full of juicy mass, homebasing a planet would easily claim a system for good, and be invulnerable. If you take away homebasing planets, then A: a new person starting off could have a hard time getting a base set up, and B: you could just mine the planet and stuff it in cargo as above.

Mass of cargo doesnt count? Blob down 50x50x50 hunks of rock and call it a station.

Again, I'm not against this idea at all, I like where it's going. The idea of points of mass in different categories definitely has some tread on it to go places. Just providing those little pokes to eek out the difficult parts of an idea in hopes that we can refine it to the point where it gets implemented.

How about utilizing the blueprint rating system? I know it is WIP and not very accurate at the moment, but - provided it stays - it will become useful eventually.
Besides requiring a certain minimum total mass, the ratios of defensive versus offensive versus non-functional blocks could be taken as indicators of how well defended a system is.
Add more shield/armour and gain a defensive bonus, add more weaponry and gain an offensive bonus towards weapon range/damage/whatever. Maybe build more factories and storage to get a repair/regeneration bonus, or warp gates for a mobility bonus.
Just some ideas to throw into the mix.

 

[Lord_Greyscale]

I think this might actually be a better system.

Hard to tell though, since we still only have the utmost basics of the current one installed.

...
Nah, even at it's very core, the mass-based system wins.

If for no other reason than because with this one, Turf wars are a matter of moving in MOAR mass than whomever is being invaded, and then beating down his defences.

Siege warfare at it's finest really.

 

[Broomsage]

With advanced AI and crew this will be a must.
AIs would make the logistics of this easy and fun and I love planning logistics.

The only problems are of course balance issues, which can all be easily ironed out.
[DOUBLEPOST=1454752553,1454752523][/DOUBLEPOST]Sombody please tell me why this wont work. It has to have some huge problem somewhere and I must find it

 

[ltmauve]

Recognized by Council - New Territory System
I came up with this idea, and one of the mechanics involved works to solve the "50x50x50 block of dirt" problem. MrFURB came up with it, though.
Basically, each block type has a Territory Claim Mass (Similar to how each block type has its own inertial mass that weighs down ships) and the claim amount on nearby sectors is determined by the total TCM of the station. So you can put down your 50x50x50 block of dirt, or you could put down a few reactors, and that results in the same claim amount.
I personally don't like the box solar systems we have now; it seems very limited and rigid. Therefore, I developed a system where each sector was counted individually.

Sombody please tell me why this wont work. It has to have some huge problem somewhere and I must find it

Honestly, there isn't an incentive to claim a lot of area, or if you're out in the boonies, there's no reason to do more than a minor claim.
Therefore:
Asteroid refresh rate is determined by the claim level.
Have a max claim level for each system.

There are a lot of suggestions for using FP to buy faction bonuses (like increased mining bonus, free jump drive, or a combat boost in-system.) Plus, if the FP death penalty goes to the killer, means the FP dealth penalty is useful. So have the FP supplied be proportional to the claim amount, instead of getting rid of it.

 

[Voldrath]

I like the idea of asset based influence. But i think it would work better based off the credit value of an entity rather than mass. That prevents spamming cheep heavy blocks, and also reduces the impact of planets. Carved minerals would become worthwhile as a decorative building material as well.

 

[Broomsage]

Recognized by Council - New Territory System
I came up with this idea, and one of the mechanics involved works to solve the "50x50x50 block of dirt" problem. MrFURB came up with it, though.
Basically, each block type has a Territory Claim Mass (Similar to how each block type has its own inertial mass that weighs down ships) and the claim amount on nearby sectors is determined by the total TCM of the station. So you can put down your 50x50x50 block of dirt, or you could put down a few reactors, and that results in the same claim amount.
I personally don't like the box solar systems we have now; it seems very limited and rigid. Therefore, I developed a system where each sector was counted individually.[/QUOTE/]


I like your ideas for sectors. support for territory on a sector level just makes sense. Net worth of factions makes sense, but the idea is that mass is destroyable. Basing faction power off of claimed mass and basing territory off of faction power.
I think that the eventual abolition of the current box solar systems is inevitable, it just opens up so many possibilities and would make everything flow better.
You get a like