Read by Council Upcoming heat block and sun damage

[Shaker]

After a heated discussion in the news thread (pun intended). It seems that a fair group of us have different ideas of what should be implemented.

Feel free to post your own idea or adding onto someone elses, just please stay on the topic above.

My idea:
Sun
- remove explodey, give it hull melt and power drain (systems restarting due to heat)
- add another bar on the right side of screen labeled heat, hull/armor/heat blocks have an amount of sun damage they can absorb, once at 100% then chaos happens. Heat dissipates once outside of sun radius over time.

 

[Pacific_Jim]

I'd keep the explode effect, but only have it for system blocks (ie power/shields etc). I'd also add a random EMP type effect.

 

[jgames666]

I think I agree with the OP for the most part. Maybe add a radiation shield to the game that will allow you to go under solar damage for a while but uses tremendous amounts of power, so you eventually have to move.

 

[Keptick]

It's stated in the news post that a way to protect from thermal damage will be added in the future, so we'll have to wait and see how that plays out.

 

[Lecic]

I like the idea of systems overheating and exploding, personally. I like that sun damage does not discriminate in its wrath to larger or small ships.

 

[Shaker]

It's stated in the news post that a way to protect from thermal damage will be added in the future, so we'll have to wait and see how that plays out.

Yep but they never mentioned how it works, its always good to see what the community can come up with and we might even have an idea for it to be upgraded later on (like the permission modules)

 

[Keptick]

I like the idea of systems overheating and exploding, personally. I like that sun damage does not discriminate in its wrath to larger or small ships.

Yea, the way I see it it makes components overheat and explode, which kinda makes sense (imo beams should do the same).

 

[terra mining corp.]

will the damage radius show on the star map so you know if a planet or a shop is too close to a star because with the new thrust mechanics a large ship stops like a frackin overloaded freight train!

 

[Lord_Greyscale]

I've actually been using "Sun damage" for quite a while now, and aside from the damage now making noise the first few times it happens, the overall amount of damage seems to be the same.

And yet, I can't help but feel that "lethal radiation" is but one of many reasons Shielding was developed.
Shields should block Star damage just like they do nearly all other forms of hurt.

Or are the dev team really trying to make a stupid "concentrated sunshine" joke regarding the warhead block? (since that ignores shields)

 

[AtraUnam]

While were on the subject of shielding types how about a 'structural integrity field' that defends against collision damage (if that ever gets fully implemented)

 

[Lord_Greyscale]

Nahhh. Star Trek is practically made of "structural integrity fields" and they get their asses handed to them by the first enemy that does a RAMMING SPEED attack. (the Jem'Hadar are the most obvious in this regard, though the Enterprise-E ramming the Nemisis probably counts too.)

Star Wars has the same problem, and to an even worse degree. (Executor SSD being wiped by a tiny-ass A-wing Interceptor)

 

[NeonSturm]

Nahhh. Star Trek is practically made of "structural integrity fields" and they get their asses handed to them by the first enemy that does a RAMMING SPEED attack. (the Jem'Hadar are the most obvious in this regard, though the Enterprise-E ramming the Nemisis probably counts too.)

Star Wars has the same problem, and to an even worse degree. (Executor SSD being wiped by a tiny-ass A-wing Interceptor)

Depends on for which axis the integrity field is for. or if the collider interrupts the integrity field :p

Back-to-topic: My idea on this:

Maybe heat-capacity could grow with mass and heat-growth depends on heat-dissipation and heat-exposure.
The heat dissipation should grow with the heat level.

In prolonged dives, hull should not melt before the cooling fails which essentially is the point you are dead (no thrust to escape).
The cooling increases difference of heat in cooled and not cooled areas, which allows your hulls temperature to raise more before systems fail. And a hotter hull dissipates more heat.

There might be a critical temperature at which your hull starts taking damage while ignoring the heat-level system.
Variables:

• heat_source = heat of the sun, blue star, weapon, etc.
• heat_ship = temperature in non-cooled areas.
• heat_dissipation = scales with ship area and uses the result of a formula which accepts heat_ship as a parameter.
  
• heat_cooling = temperature difference between heat_ship and the heat in cooled areas, increased by cooling-systems.
• heat_transfer = how fast heat can be transported from hot parts of the hull to colder parts of the hull, increased by cooling-systems.

Rules:

1. If ( heat_source + heat_ship - heat_transfer ) exceeds hull_max_heat, the hull takes damage, regardless of whether the ship is overheating, damage depends on the difference.
   • This is meant to emulate the effect heat exposure which is both extreme and short in duration, so that heat doesn't travel away in time.
   • Weapons hit a small spot with intense heat which may overcome heat_transfer, but weapons have a small effect on the overall heat.
   • The sun hits a larger area with less heat which does not overcome heat_transfer, but it has a large effect on the overall heat.
2. If ( heat_ship - heat_cooling ) exceeds what a system can bare, it fails or has a reduced efficiency.
3. heat_dissipation increases with heat_ship.
4. heat_cooling & heat_transfer increase with cooling related blocks.

 

[Waterphoenix]

Sounds good, but the sun damage at the moment is definately too low. I can make a ship and just fly THROUGH a star. THROUGH A STAR. That's insane, hopefully they make it so that when blocks touch a star they vaporise instantly?

 

[NeonSturm]

Actually the sun is hot, but vacuum is a great thermal insulator.
A ship shouldn't vanish by touching a star - it could bend the fluid surface's space-time or deform it with levitation fields (or other techno-babble).

But it should when it dives straight into the surface of a star. However then you have to display the surface properly and not just paint the sector borders.

 

[Lecic]

Actually the sun is hot, but vacuum is a great thermal insulator.
A ship shouldn't vanish by touching a star - it could bend the fluid surface's space-time or deform it with levitation fields (or other techno-babble).

But it should when it dives straight into the surface of a star. However then you have to display the surface properly and not just paint the sector borders.

I'm pretty sure our ships don't have that.

 

[AnthonyAnderson]

I'd be equally interested in be able to use a sun-resistant station to cast a "shadow" that's safe for ships (a solar outpost that's safe to dock in and move around in, so long as you remain in its shade).

 

[jgames666]

Maybe heat-capacity could grow with mass and heat-growth depends on heat-dissipation and heat-exposure.
The heat dissipation should grow with the heat level.

In prolonged dives, hull should not melt before the cooling fails which essentially is the point you are dead (no thrust to escape).
The cooling increases difference of heat in cooled and not cooled areas, which allows your hulls temperature to raise more before systems fail. And a hotter hull dissipates more heat.

There might be a critical temperature at which your hull starts taking damage while ignoring the heat-level system.
Variables:

• heat_source = heat of the sun, blue star, weapon, etc.
• heat_ship = temperature in non-cooled areas.
• heat_dissipation = scales with ship area and uses the result of a formula which accepts heat_ship as a parameter.
  
• heat_cooling = temperature difference between heat_ship and the heat in cooled areas, increased by cooling-systems.
• heat_transfer = how fast heat can be transported from hot parts of the hull to colder parts of the hull, increased by cooling-systems.

Rules:

1. If ( heat_source + heat_ship - heat_transfer ) exceeds hull_max_heat, the hull takes damage, regardless of whether the ship is overheating, damage depends on the difference.
   • This is meant to emulate the effect heat exposure which is both extreme and short in duration, so that heat doesn't travel away in time.
   • Weapons hit a small spot with intense heat which may overcome heat_transfer, but weapons have a small effect on the overall heat.
   • The sun hits a larger area with less heat which does not overcome heat_transfer, but it has a large effect on the overall heat.
2. If ( heat_ship - heat_cooling ) exceeds what a system can bare, it fails or has a reduced efficiency.
3. heat_dissipation increases with heat_ship.
4. heat_cooling & heat_transfer increase with cooling related blocks.

Well thought out idea. I definitely like the thought of treating temperature as a real thing in starmade, but i think this might create more performance issues. I really like the thought though if it can be done and isn't made "too hardcore."

 

[NeonSturm]

but i think this might create more performance issues.

My idea works just as shields do - all values are shared for an entity.
The effects on systems can be a sorted list so you only have to check whether you go over the next/previous temperature point and if yes, repeat checking elements in that direction (less effort than block destruction by projectiles).
A problem could be 1-block entity spam, but that needs another solution. Docket entities could share the stats with the main ship if it is too much of a problem, but it would be hot to have that on turrets too.

 

[jgames666]

but it would be hot to have that on turrets too.

I totally agree there.:D

 

[Dire Venom]

Why not make the resources required for the sun shields only aquired through interacting with the (upcoming) space whales?
So what to do with the rare resource gained from downing one of the Leviathans?
Why not use it to create two new moduals (Sun Shield Computer and Sun shield modual)
How this works: Very rare items/resources can be harvested from stars using the Harvester scoop. However this is normally not possible due to the intense heat/radiation near the star.
The Sun Shield works like an effect (put on hotbar, drains power while active).
While activate, it DISABLES shield regen and changes the color of the shield bar on your hud.
The amount of 'Sun shields' you have is proportional to your normal shield capcity divided by the number of Sun Shield moduals connected to the computer (with a max ratio of 1:1) thus a ship with 100k shields in, say 5,000 shield capacitors and 5,000 sun shield moduals would get 100k of Sun Shields.
The Sunshields could also work as normal shields (its basically your normal shield, but without the regen but protects your ship from stars heat/radiation), however cannot regen while active (you have to disable the effect and recoup shields to regen them).

As a ship equipped with Sun shields nears a star, instaed of the players/ship taking damage, the damage is absorbed by the shields. Due to not regening while active, this means ships can only remain near a star for (x) minutes (dependent on the shielding and maybe number of blocks on a ship).
The amount of damage taken to the shields per tick could also be related to the ships size, as larger ships would have greater surface area and thus would have to absorb more radiation/heat.
Damage per tick to the shields would increase exponentialy as the ship gets closer to the star (thus there would be optimum distances for harvesting).
When (x) distance from the star, active harvester scoops could have the (x%) chance of picking up very rare/new resources per tick (very low chance though).
Example of Sun Harvesting from elite dangerous):

Thus harvesting from stars would require a lot of effort to achieve and would have the chance of netting either rare resources or other rare things. Due to the disabled regen while active, any ship could only remain near a star for so long before losing its shielding and taking damage like normal.