Mines and their practicality

[ruger392]

So recently I've been wanting to build a minelayer but I'm starting to wonder if mines are even practical. If deployed in enough numbers and in close enough proximity around an object they would certainly get hit by things and blow up, but can you fit enough warheads inside a small mine for it to actually do any damage? I've been doing some testing on this matter and the closest I can get to what I want is a 4x4x4 spherical mine. It does an alright amount of damage (not as much as I had hoped for) and its size would allow for maybe 20 or 30 to be stored without using an exorbitant amount of space. Those stats aren't what I was hoping for but I can live with them, but then there's their visibility - the majority of the power of IRL mines comes from their very small size and tendency to blend in with the ground. If you know where mines are and can see them, you can easily fly around or step over them. I've tried using hull blocks to cover the surface of the mine but this results in two problems: First, the mine can only be set off if a ship hits an exposed warhead (though this could possibly be counteracted with area triggers - don't know enough about how those work to say for sure) and second the damage of the warheads seems to be largely reduced when they have to go through hull blocks first and then do damage to the target ship. I've tried partially covering the mine, but that seems to be the worst option because it is still very visible and doesn't do enough damage. I was wondering if anyone here has come up with a working, practical mine or has ideas on how to make one.

TL;DR Not sure if mines viable for damaging/destroying ships. Does anyone know how to make an effective mine?

 

[SuperWookie]

Warheads are extremely weak at the moment. One warhead block will barely scratch the paint off advanced armour, and in small groups such as your 4x4x4 you'll likely only make small holes in ships, which will be more of a pain to repair than anything. In large amounts they could be useful, however that would mean either making massive and easily avoided mines, or pretty much dedicating a decent sized ship to ramming, which would be fairly easy to take out from far away if you're spotted. I wouldn't bother with a minelayer at the moment, in the future though I'm hopeful that the devs will make them a lot more effective.

 

[StormWing0]

If you are going to make a mine layer though use as few blocks as you can that aren't warheads. Lots of small 3 cubed size mines spread over a wide area may get ignored but at least it keeps the cost of deployment down. There are servers where warheads are a threat but in the default setup they aren't much of one right now. Meantime quantity is better than size right now and you are going to have to flood whole sectors with mines to get someone thinking.

 

[NeonSturm]

You can make auto-targeting mine-shooters.

1. Put a light gun and turret to target enemy ships (don't need any damage or could be just a salvage beam if it works).
2. Detect rotation (area triggers) perhaps with a floating trigger and wireless logic if it needs a separate structure.
3. Trigger logic to use a push-beam/cannon on mines, undock and move the next mine in front of the push-beam/cannon.

My worst concern about minefields is that somebody fires small turrets as minefield clearer.
A torpedo with a light turret on it firing at neutral entities.

 

[ruger392]

You can make auto-targeting mine-shooters.

1. Put a light gun and turret to target enemy ships (don't need any damage or could be just a salvage beam if it works).
2. Detect rotation (area triggers) perhaps with a floating trigger and wireless logic if it needs a separate structure.
3. Trigger logic to use a push-beam/cannon on mines, undock and move the next mine in front of the push-beam/cannon.

My worst concern about minefields is that somebody fires small turrets as minefield clearer.
A torpedo with a light turret on it firing at neutral entities.

My fix for the mine-destroyers (and a part of the plan from the start due to various reasons) was to implement a radar jammer that is activated by logic and stays online. However, this requires sacrificing warheads for the power supply which reduces damage even further.

The only way I can see mines being effective is if they aren't camouflaged by hull/other blocks and all the warheads are visible but that effectively nullifies them because even a big ship could see 100 little blocks of warheads floating around in space and they'd be even more obvious to smaller vessels (which are the only kind they would actually do significant amounts of damage to)

 

[StormWing0]

Jammer can't be activated by logic though.

 

[jayman38]

Conventional mines aren't practical for a space game environment. To lay down enough for it to actually "catch" someone will require numbers that will inevitably lag and hobble the game. Point Defense remote turrets and stationary drones that can fire their own weapons at passing targets are the better solution to mines.

The only viable use for mines in this game that I see: fleeing a battle and laying a mine for a pursuing attacker. But if you are going to do that, you may as well just add on additional shields and conventional weapons instead.

 

[StormWing0]

My mines are more of drones anyways, they'll move to attack a foe shooting and slamming into them. But yes we need some kind of logic powered jammer or cloaker system but that will get abused rather fast.

 

[Lecic]

Personally, I'd just like to see Minelayers get added in. I think my suggestion on how they could work makes them useful without them being too OP.

 

[NeonSturm]

I can't see if you guys really understood my last post:

• A turret which fires mines as projectiles (because they are hull penetrating) requires lower numbers to actually hit something, because the coverage is greater.

Conventional mines aren't practical for a space game environment. To lay down enough for it to actually "catch" someone will require numbers that will inevitably lag and hobble the game. Point Defense remote turrets and stationary drones that can fire their own weapons at passing targets are the better solution to mines.

The only viable use for mines in this game that I see: fleeing a battle and laying a mine for a pursuing attacker. But if you are going to do that, you may as well just add on additional shields and conventional weapons instead.

I would like a Stockpile-Effect : It makes any weapon far better but suicide itself.

• Stockpile+Pulse: works like current mines
  • Turns the structure into a giant mine
• Stockpile+Beams: a giant (detonator-effect-block)-fuelled death ray
  • All effect-blocks turn to scrap
• Stockpile+Cannons: a minelayer
  • Adds equally spaced static and destroyable projectiles in an area as big as a docking box
  • An equal amount of effect-blocks turn to scrap
• Stockpile+Missiles: anonymous sticky mines
  • They start accelerating to everything nearby
  • Turn on if you reach 1.5x their detection radius
  • All attached ones explode as soon as removed in build mode or attacked by another weapon.
  • They do not as much damage as cannons and are not as numerous. But with luck, the target will not see them being attached until there is a bunch of it.

With stockpile+pulse you could even put a bit of armour on the mine and it adds a bit of damage (depending on capsule-costs).

• Better look.
• Custom logic for no efficiency deficit.
• ...