Overwhelming point defense

[Dire Venom]

So Im currently fiddling around with how to break through point defense (for missiles) and how to create a good point defense (against missiles)

Obviously spamming tons of missiles might work, but how many turrets would be required to defend against a certain volume of missiles (assuming they have LOS )
What have you guys tried, on both attacking and defending against missiles, and how effective IS point defense :?
Cheers!

 

[Edymnion]

My small combat miner has 6 PDTs and is virtually immune to alpha pirate station mega torpedoes.

If you have a jammer and enough PDTs, you really are pretty much immune to all missiles.

 

[Panpiper]

A little while ago, I built a test platform to test different point defense builds. The platform fired 14 dumbfire missiles every second straight out, bracketing the area I placed the point defense systems I was testing. I was able to get a pretty good visual guestimate of the effectiveness of various point defense systems. (Waffleboard cannons don't improve PD at all.) Later after completing my latest battleminer that had eight point defence turrets on it's front (four on the rear), on a whim I parked the ship in front of that platform so the dumbfire missiles would fire straight at it.

14 missiles per second... I sat there mesmerized for ten minutes as not a single missile hit the ship.

Now I must admit these were no ordinary point defense turrets. I had spent a lot of time perfecting a PD turret that is extremely effective. And no, I don't particularly feel like divulging my secrets, again. Suffice to say, that there 'can' be more effective designs. That said there is nothing so wrong with regular point defense turrets that having a few more of them won't fix.

When building an offensive strike missile system, I will indeed endeavor to saturate PD defenses. My Corsair pirate for instance has nine missiles that it will launch as a single wave, but only one of them does significant damage, the rest are decoys. My standard ship strike plan is to strike with a wave of over 100 missiles. Most of those will be two module missiles designed to be decoys for the 'real' missiles hidden among them. Not even my point defense can shoot down 100 missiles coming in as a single wave. Many of the big warheads will get through.

 

[StormWing0]

The SWD HQ has room for 48 Anti Missile Turrets. All of them with full 360 turning so needless to say it'd e hard to break through that on a good day.

Needless to say on Easy mode for the AI it takes about 2 to 6 AMS Turrets to stop missiles depending on the design. On Mean mode it takes about 2 for a single missile.

 

[Drumboy168]

A little while ago, I built a test platform to test different point defense builds. The platform fired 14 dumbfire missiles every second straight out, bracketing the area I placed the point defense systems I was testing. I was able to get a pretty good visual guestimate of the effectiveness of various point defense systems. (Waffleboard cannons don't improve PD at all.) Later after completing my latest battleminer that had eight point defence turrets on it's front (four on the rear), on a whim I parked the ship in front of that platform so the dumbfire missiles would fire straight at it.

14 missiles per second... I sat there mesmerized for ten minutes as not a single missile hit the ship.

Now I must admit these were no ordinary point defense turrets. I had spent a lot of time perfecting a PD turret that is extremely effective. And no, I don't particularly feel like divulging my secrets, again. Suffice to say, that there 'can' be more effective designs. That said there is nothing so wrong with regular point defense turrets that having a few more of them won't fix.

When building an offensive strike missile system, I will indeed endeavor to saturate PD defenses. My Corsair pirate for instance has nine missiles that it will launch as a single wave, but only one of them does significant damage, the rest are decoys. My standard ship strike plan is to strike with a wave of over 100 missiles. Most of those will be two module missiles designed to be decoys for the 'real' missiles hidden among them. Not even my point defense can shoot down 100 missiles coming in as a single wave. Many of the big warheads will get through.

I would assume that PD turrets are like the rest of the AI, (read, idiotic), and so target the closest available missile to them. If that is so, there is certainly a value to have your so-called "decoy missiles" placed several blocks ahead of the main warheads, thus not only reducing the chance of an AMS getting a lock on one of your heavy missiles, but outright making it impossible.

Slightly off topic, but what weapon combos do you generally use for missiles? Dumbfire cannon missiles? Hulk Pulse? Tracker Beam?

 

[Panpiper]

Slightly off topic, but what weapon combos do you generally use for missiles? Dumbfire cannon missiles? Hulk Pulse? Tracker Beam?

Offensively, I use missile/beam for long range, missile/missile for swarms (only for ships I expect to fight solo, such as a battleminer) and in some cases, missile/cannon as two module systems in turrets. Those last are to compliment the previous offensive missile systems to aid in PD saturation when at closer ranges.

My ships tend to put on quite the fireworks display when in combat. I also stick a two module beam/cannon on my point defense along with the cannon/cannon that does the actual missile destruction, this so I can see 'pretty' beams crisscrossing all over the place amongst my multicolored missile tracks.

 

[Dire Venom]

Currently Im trying out a combo.
First I launch a few hundred lock-on missile-beam missiles (decent firepower, but mainly decoys)
Straight after I fire some heavy lock-on missile-beam-(95%)ion missiles to take down sheilds.
Then a ton of heavy missile-pulse nukes to blow their inards out

 

[Drumboy168]

Offensively, I use missile/beam for long range, missile/missile for swarms (only for ships I expect to fight solo, such as a battleminer) and in some cases, missile/cannon as two module systems in turrets. Those last are to compliment the previous offensive missile systems to aid in PD saturation when at closer ranges.

My ships tend to put on quite the fireworks display when in combat. I also stick a two module beam/cannon on my point defense along with the cannon/cannon that does the actual missile destruction, this so I can see 'pretty' beams crisscrossing all over the place amongst my multicolored missile tracks.

Ah, I see. That's a pretty nifty idea for the PD, especially if the beam color contrasts sharply with the cannon color. It'd look cool.

Still though, no room for hulk missiles in the fleets of Panpiper?

 

[Panpiper]

Currently Im trying out a combo.
First I launch a few hundred lock-on missile-beam missiles (decent firepower, but mainly decoys)
Straight after I fire some heavy lock-on missile-beam-(95%)ion missiles to take down sheilds.
Then a ton of heavy missile-pulse nukes to blow their inards out

The problem is that those pulse nukes are 'much' slower than the other missiles, meaning by the time they arrive at the target, the target's point defense will have nothing to do but shoot down your pulse nukes. You would be much better off in my opinion using missile/beam for that third wave instead, but marry them to explosive perhaps instead of ion. Also, make darn sure you fire all three waves in rapid succession, don't even wait a second between waves. One, two, three, as fast as you read those words.
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Still though, no room for hulk missiles in the fleets of Panpiper?

Too slow, too easy to shoot down. They are useful for hollowing out large areas of pirate stations that have already had their turrets removed, but IMO useless against a properly defended warship.

 

[Dire Venom]

Thats why timing is key....
If their PD is allready saturated with hundreds of missiles the second and third volleys are a guaranteed hit (if you time it right)

 

[Drumboy168]

The problem is that those pulse nukes are 'much' slower than the other missiles, meaning by the time they arrive at the target, the target's point defense will have nothing to do but shoot down your pulse nukes. You would be much better off in my opinion using missile/beam for that third wave instead, but marry them to explosive perhaps instead of ion. Also, make darn sure you fire all three waves in rapid succession, don't even wait a second between waves. One, two, three, as fast as you read those words.
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Too slow, too easy to shoot down. They are useful for hollowing out large areas of pirate stations that have already had their turrets removed, but IMO useless against a properly defended warship.

That's what I thought you'd say. Ok, then, let me pick your brain. Do you use mostly missile turrets, or do you mix in some cannon fire for actual combat, and not just AMS. I do recall you saying in some other post that you make multi-purpose turrets, is that correct?

 

[Panpiper]

That's what I thought you'd say. Ok, then, let me pick your brain. Do you use mostly missile turrets, or do you mix in some cannon fire for actual combat, and not just AMS. I do recall you saying in some other post that you make multi-purpose turrets, is that correct?

That is correct. In fact technically, missile armament is secondary to my offense. My fighting ships have cannons ('very' large cannon/cannon) that will rip small ships like drones apart literally within seconds. Versus larger ships, they erode the hull and systems very rapidly. My main offensive turrets have two such cannons, each doing ~75000 DPS (some of that is ion), 'plus' they'll have six, 400 module missile/beam weapons, 'plus' 2o two module decoy missile/beam weapons. Those missiles translate to only 48000 DPS additional damage per turret. My battleminer has four such turrets.

I have those missiles so I don't have to chase missile armed riff raff all through space. To bring cannons to bear, I have overdrive.

Newest version (which looks much better) still under construction.

 

[Dire Venom]

You can also set your turrents to send out a steady stream of missiles, you just have multiple computers, each one with a different ratio between the linked beam-missiles

 

[Drumboy168]

That is correct. In fact technically, missile armament is secondary to my offense. My fighting ships have cannons ('very' large cannon/cannon) that will rip small ships like drones apart literally within seconds. Versus larger ships, they erode the hull and systems very rapidly. My main offensive turrets have two such cannons, each doing ~75000 DPS (some of that is ion), 'plus' they'll have six, 400 module missile/beam weapons, 'plus' 2o two module decoy missile/beam weapons. Those missiles translate to only 48000 DPS additional damage per turret. My battleminer has four such turrets.

I have those missiles so I don't have to chase missile armed riff raff all through space. To bring cannons to bear, I have overdrive.

Newest version (which looks much better) still under construction.

Daaaaaaaaaaaaannng! Is that a mobile weapons platform, or a tactical defense station?

 

[Dire Venom]

Thats an awesome looking ship!
May I ask what its size is :?

 

[Panpiper]

Daaaaaaaaaaaaannng! Is that a mobile weapons platform, or a tactical defense station?

Thats an awesome looking ship!
May I ask what its size is :?

That is actually my battleminer. That's my flyabout ship. It is almost exactly 800,000 blocks, including turrets. The one being built, basically a rebuild, will both work better and look better, in pretty much every way.

 

[Dire Venom]

Nice!
It reminds me a bit of my current project:

Ive only just atsrted mine though XD

 

[Drumboy168]

That is actually my battleminer. That's my flyabout ship. It is almost exactly 800,000 blocks, including turrets. The one being built, basically a rebuild, will both work better and look better, in pretty much every way.

800000! That thing is soooooolid, eh?

 

[Keptick]

My titan has 36 PD turrets, swarms can't touch it (unless there's over 200 missiles) in longer engagement ranges. However, I find that the turrets have a much harder time shooting down missile/beam missiles due to their overwhelming flight speed, especially at closer ranges. So here's some tips:

Try to have each angle of the ship covered by at least one PD turret, if not more. Try to spread them out, cluster them together and they'll be vulnerable to missile strikes, and will just offer less effective coverage overall.

If you're trying to break through a PD cover try using missile/beam with decoy swarms, it works very well. If you're in combat and don't have that on hand then try to get closer to the enemy ship. The closer you are the less time the enemy turrets will have to shoot down your missiles, meaning that your chances of hitting go up.

 

[Panpiper]

800000! That thing is soooooolid, eh?

Mostly. It does have some RP space, enough that it feels like a real ship. It has crew quarters, private cabins for a half dozen, mess hall, head, medical room, storage room and a captain's quarters. It probably wouldn't pass muster on a heavy RP server, but it passes my own. Other than that though, it is indeed solid except for necessary clearances for turret traverse. Oh, logic systems have their own room too, so I can access them easily. And of course there is the bridge, which has an adjacent room for the subspace radar...