Curious Fuel Survey

[Valiant70]

There are a lot of people who complain every time someone mentions adding fuel to the game, and I want to know what the most common reasons are. If your reason for not liking fuel is not here, let me know and I'll add it. Please comment when you vote so this thread stays visible. Votes are publicly visible not to shame anyone, but to make this a way of voicing opinions.

These are my opinions on these reasons which should generate discussion, controversy, and such as well as keep the thread bumped.:

1. I think it will cause a grind. No one wants to grind as far as I know. However, maintaining and protecting automated fuel sources could be fun. If sources had a limited output, large factions would always be hungry, motivating them to attack and chase out smaller factions in their vicinity.
2. I'm afraid of getting stranded. Most suggestions include some form of free energy for smaller ships, or a certain percentage of free energy for all sizes. If a game mechanic makes it possible to get stranded, that should be changeable in game difficulty settings.
3. I think Titans will become too hard to operate. I hate to break it to you, but that's a good thing. People complain about overpowered large ships as much as they complain about fuel. If you love Titans that much, play on a server with other Titan fans and unlimited fuel.
4. I think new players will have it too rough. See "I'm afraid of getting stranded."
5. I'm afraid my favorite server will turn on fuel in the configs. If your server contains enough people who share your play style, that is unlikely. If not, you may consider looking for one with more like-minded players. It's possible you'd have more fun anyway.
6. I think it will mess with other game mechanics even when it's disabled. I doubt it. That would be caused by bad design, not by fuel itself.
7. I'm just a nutcase! LOL ...whatever. Have fun.

To all of these: If you don't like it, turn it off in singleplayer or choose a server that has it turned off. That's what server configs are for.

 

[Megacrafter127]

If sources had a limited output, large factions would always be hungry, motivating them to attack and chase out smaller factions in their vicinity.

Which can very well be a bad thing.(for the smaller factions mainly)

 

[Valiant70]

Which can very well be a bad thing.(for the smaller factions mainly)

Or it could be a good thing. Several small factions might band together to frag a bully empire. Small factions are at a disadvantage regardless of the reason for conflict. Generating more conflict is often interesting rather than bad. Once again, configurability will save the day if this has effects a particular server doesn't want.

 

[QuantumAnomaly]

I like the idea, but am VERY cautious about it being implemented. I think it could add a lot of fun and interesting mechanics to the game (see also, limited transport/cargo space forcing more dedicated room for salvage, transport, and trade ships). It could encourage another piece to the trade and inter-player economy, something worth guarding, something to give players that dont want to fight pirates another job to do, and something to contribute to servers.

On the other hand, it needs to be handled well, from the ground up, to prevent another overabundance issue, like we currently see with salvaging/mining, where it adds an additional mechanic that is too easily surpassed, where the player ends up with millions of fuel for a few minutes worth of work, making it pointless to have on the ship. If it's implemented, it needs to be done well, to encourage some kind of scarcity and purpose without being as rare as blue asteroids or as abundant as purple top stuff lol.

Now that I think about it, the overabundance issue really could be curbed much more easily by limiting the amount of items in any stack of storage, and a weight to each item (even if that weight is reduced while it is shrunk down and stuffed in storage boxes), that would not only make your ship heavier by storing it (requiring more thrust to transport large volumes of items, while also allowing a transport ship to dump some cargo from it's rail docks to increase speed, or give pirates/players something else to chase rather than the main ship) but also force the player to dedicate some space to that super-salvager instead of just one box with a million crystals of every kind in it.

 

[Pacific_Jim]

I'm against it for a couple of reasons, one of which you outlined above. Mining for resources is boring, adding more things you have to grind for is only going to negatively impact the game. And since the universe is infinite, you can always just grind for it. It doesn't stop anyone doing anything, it just makes it a pain in the arse to do.

On the subject of it balancing bigger ships I honestly don't really agree that it's necessary. You can already take on a bigger ship with a fraction of its mass in smaller ships. Once fleets are implemented and AI is improved I only see that becoming more true. If anything to make fuel improved bigger ships worthwhile you would have to overpower them, otherwise there'd be no point.

And on the subject of mechanical balance I also don't agree with you. Balancing game mechanics is a lot of work, balancing a mechanic like this and keeping the game balanced whether it's turned on or off is definitely pushing it. I'd much rather have one system working properly.

 

[Snk]

I'm against it for a couple of reasons, one of which you outlined above. Mining for resources is boring, adding more things you have to grind for is only going to negatively impact the game. And since the universe is infinite, you can always just grind for it. It doesn't stop anyone doing anything, it just makes it a pain in the arse to do.

Well, you could make the same argument about nearly any resource gathering mechanic.

 

[FullMetalFox]

Well none of the available options fits what i think about fuel.
In short: I like Fuel Mechanics, but not in this limited form most people imagine it.

 

[starhaiden]

That is why I suggest lava as fuel, it common, everyone can get it and it can be mined

 

[CyberTao]

I support fuel as a mid-late game alternative mainly, mainly to be used to differentiate between Civvie and Military ships.

 

[Valiant70]

Well none of the available options fits what i think about fuel.
In short: I like Fuel Mechanics, but not in this limited form most people imagine it.

That still fits into generally pro-fuel. What most people envision as fuel probably WOULD be boring.

 

[Jananton]

Hmm, not that I'm against some kind of travel limit with a certain amount of power resource what one could call fuel, I'm just a little reluctant that this could bring in what I would call the KSP effect.
People will become overly involved in calculating what's needed to get where they want to go and although arithmetic can be fun - I like KSP very much - I wouldn't like StarMade to go that road.

That said, fuel, in my opinion, should be something alien and futuristic that's available in many places, fuel scoops to harvest the rays of the many suns in the galaxy for energy with specialized ships for instance - an idea from the original Elite, don't know if the current version has that still -, or black matter that can be gathered by traveling the black holes is another possible source that comes to mind. Lava as someone else mentioned could be yet another resource, however then questions will arise like: will all be equally powerful, can one engine use all types, do we need refineries as in between steps between raw gathered source and usable product, there's so much more to be considered then just the simple "do we want fuel or not". In short, adding fuel isn't a simple proposal at all.

Greets,

Jan

 

[friendofvampires]

Hmm, not that I'm against some kind of travel limit with a certain amount of power resource what one could call fuel, I'm just a little reluctant that this could bring in what I would call the KSP effect.
People will become overly involved in calculating what's needed to get where they want to go and although arithmetic can be fun - I like KSP very much - I wouldn't like StarMade to go that road.

That said, fuel, in my opinion, should be something alien and futuristic that's available in many places, fuel scoops to harvest the rays of the many suns in the galaxy for energy with specialized ships for instance - an idea from the original Elite, don't know if the current version has that still -, or black matter that can be gathered by traveling the black holes is another possible source that comes to mind. Lava as someone else mentioned could be yet another resource, however then questions will arise like: will all be equally powerful, can one engine use all types, do we need refineries as in between steps between raw gathered source and usable product, there's so much more to be considered then just the simple "do we want fuel or not". In short, adding fuel isn't a simple proposal at all.

Greets,

Jan

I think that it depends on how many sources there are and what EXACTLY the fuel does, i.e. power, thrust, ect.

in my scenario i'm brainstorming, fuel makes power, and there are many mane ways to get fuel, so they are all processed by a "utili-reactor". each reactor could only take X amount of fuel per second, and only one type at a time, though one unit of a fuel is equal to any other unit, the difference between fuels how MUCH fuel is made and how many steps it takes. solar makes a very small amount of fuel, biofuel is made from the plants and wood, so isn't too hard to make, and thus makes only a small amount. you could also have processes to make fuel from planets, lava, ores, "on" logic signals, anything really. I also think that it would be beneficial to have the processing be a simple block that you create a multiblock around. for example, want solar power? put glass on top. biofuel might need a plant on top and a green light on the side, ect

 

[Jananton]

I think that it depends on how many sources there are and what EXACTLY the fuel does, i.e. power, thrust, ect.

in my scenario i'm brainstorming, fuel makes power, and there are many mane ways to get fuel, so they are all processed by a "utili-reactor". each reactor could only take X amount of fuel per second, and only one type at a time, though one unit of a fuel is equal to any other unit, the difference between fuels how MUCH fuel is made and how many steps it takes. solar makes a very small amount of fuel, biofuel is made from the plants and wood, so isn't too hard to make, and thus makes only a small amount. you could also have processes to make fuel from ...

Well, that's one approach, personally I would differentiate in power by refueled source. Lava for civilian use, solar particles - I said rays, but particles better formulates what I meant - for higher speed like exploring purposes and black matter for military ships with less volume for the same buck for longer sustainability and better performance.

Actually when I read through your brainstorm, I feel you're too much thinking of fuel as we know it, that's okay, but not what I would like to see. It's a futuristic game, so if there's a propulsion medium or mediums used and applied it should be in the same ballpark and futuristic setting as the game itself.

Greets,

Jan

 

[Yrjosmiel]

1. I'm afraid of getting stranded. Most suggestions include some form of free energy for smaller ships, or a certain percentage of free energy for all sizes. If a game mechanic makes it possible to get stranded, that should be changeable in game difficulty settings.

Stellar panels can be for free energy.

 

[friendofvampires]

Well, that's one approach, personally I would differentiate in power by refueled source. Lava for civilian use, solar particles - I said rays, but particles better formulates what I meant - for higher speed like exploring purposes and black matter for military ships with less volume for the same buck for longer sustainability and better performance.

Actually when I read through your brainstorm, I feel you're too much thinking of fuel as we know it, that's okay, but not what I would like to see. It's a futuristic game, so if there's a propulsion medium or mediums used and applied it should be in the same ballpark and futuristic setting as the game itself.

Greets,

Jan

It was more the idea of multiple fuels all being "equal" aside from amount generated and the process of generation than focusing on how they were made. I could just call it "antimatter" and have whatever ways of making it

 

[Valiant70]

I actually had an idea where there were several types of generators, each with its own fuel and each able to burn a "universal fuel" that is created from pure energy (but of course requires you to burn something else to make it). Universal fuel would have a lower end yield than individual fuel types, but has the advantage of being cross-compatible with all generators.

 

[Yrjosmiel]

I actually had an idea where there were several types of generators, each with its own fuel and each able to burn a "universal fuel" that is created from pure energy (but of course requires you to burn something else to make it). Universal fuel would have a lower end yield than individual fuel types, but has the advantage of being cross-compatible with all generators.

Synthetic fuel, right?

 

[Valiant70]

Synthetic fuel, right?

Exactly. Some little capsule that turns into either H2 and O2 (for fuel cells), tritium (for fusion), antimatter, or exotic vacuum (for zero point) when activated. :P

 

[Yrjosmiel]

Exactly. Some little capsule that turns into either H2 and O2 (for fuel cells), tritium (for fusion), antimatter, or exotic vacuum (for zero point) when activated. :p

I was imagining it being a green fluid.
:l

 

[Keptick]

9. I would like fuel as an alternative/addition to the current system, not a replacement.