Crew

    What do you think, on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being great idea 1 being this idea sucks


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    Mariux

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    If the player has enough skill to do it, why not?
    I meant turret accuracy. Of course, there would be many more things for crew to do, but directly buffing ship's stats sounds nonsense. If you put Schumacher behind the wheel of a crappy car it won't suddenly get any more horsepower. He will, of course, drive it better than a regular driver, but the car itself won't be faster.
     

    Keptick

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    How about this: Having the ability to use special AI blocks to replace flesh crew (as an alternative). However, those special blocks would be rather expensive to produce and would consume power. So those that want living meatba... crew can have them. And those that prefer AI can also have that, all in a balanced way.

    Crew is already planned as a way to enhance ships if I remember correctly.
     
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    I am not sure about blocks being able to substitute crew. In my opinion, big part of why crew would be useful for the sake of balancing at all is that they would have their requirements (bunk, workplace terminal, life support system) that would encourage intelligent design of ship interior and systems and couldn't be circumvented, merely ignored at the price of very substantial penalties.

    The moment one will be able to substitute them, no matter the price, with any sort of block the whole crew idea becomes a painful waste, since even if you'd make AI blocks require a fortune each, many people would find them preferable to crew since you could just put a bunch of such blocks into another big ol' cube of doom and make fools out of devteam who worked hard to add crew in the first place.

    It may be lack of foresight and a bit harsh, but I have problem imagining how any kind of alternative to dependancy on crew beyond really big, hard, painful penalties (like majority of the shields, power, speed and damage output going down the drain) would not turn the whole crew mechanics into a waste of time.

    I'd rather have a server setting that disables the crew altogether with consequences of having/not having it, if someone cannot bother with such and just wants to make big, single-passenger or AI-guided spaceships.
     
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    Snk

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    I meant turret accuracy. Of course, there would be many more things for crew to do, but directly buffing ship's stats sounds nonsense. If you put Schumacher behind the wheel of a crappy car it won't suddenly get any more horsepower. He will, of course, drive it better than a regular driver, but the car itself won't be faster.

    The last I checked, a starship isn't a car. At any rate, it doesn't matter. I highly doubt the devs don't have their own idea for how it'll work.
     
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    The reason I wanted the buffs from having crew is, why would you want a full crew over a simple AI block if the crew took up so much more space, I want to keep an AI system in the game and let each way of making and controlling ships have its own advantages and disadvantages
     
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    In all honesty I wouldn't want AI to control huge vessels without penalties, since then we'll go back to where we are currently - crew not mattering and people, using 'creativity' as an excuse, getting back to piling mindlessly tons of blocks to get powerful ships.

    Also, in connection to my doubts regarding buffs - having any buffs from crew would be making current issue of disparsity between smaller and bigger vessels even worse since bigger ones could easily fit more of the crew. The only way I could see it work is like I've said before - by making big ship by default getting big, big penalties (making a huge vessel with no crew a brittle, flying source of scrap for anyone wanting to take potshot at it) that can only be balanced by buffs from the crew.
     

    Mariux

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    The last I checked, a starship isn't a car. At any rate, it doesn't matter. I highly doubt the devs don't have their own idea for how it'll work.
    Or put Luke Skywalker in the cockpit of a (insert name of a really crappy spaceship here)
     
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    In all honesty I wouldn't want AI to control huge vessels without penalties, since then we'll go back to where we are currently - crew not mattering and people, using 'creativity' as an excuse, getting back to piling mindlessly tons of blocks to get powerful ships.

    Also, in connection to my doubts regarding buffs - having any buffs from crew would be making current issue of disparsity between smaller and bigger vessels even worse since bigger ones could easily fit more of the crew. The only way I could see it work is like I've said before - by making big ship by default getting big, big penalties (making a huge vessel with no crew a brittle, flying source of scrap for anyone wanting to take potshot at it) that can only be balanced by buffs from the crew.
    There SHOULD be disparity between large and small ships, a large ship SHOULD win, (in one on one) because it has MORE weapons and armor and shields, its a fact of life larger better things win, buts its also a fact of life that the Russians used NUMBERS to defeat an opponent with bigger better tanks and aircraft (the Germans). Whats the point of spending hours building an epic, and giant ship if some guy with a tiny little fighter can take it down no problem.

    Plus you, this crew takes up space, you're not getting free buffs or anything, besides that a small ship would run just fine without crew.

    Plus if you give people advantages for having a crew at least some people are going to want to have a crew, if not just for the role play value than for the advantages a crew brings.

    The best thing in a game, atleast in my mind is to have different ways of doing things, that opens the door for creativity and new ideas, and ways for those ideas to be made. A crew should never be required for a large ship to function, but it should be made worth while for the players, like me, who want to have it to use it.

    Remember, many of the larger ships on this website, available for download, have interiors already and room for a crew, why on earth would they stop making ships like that, if we gave them benefits for doing so.
     
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    There SHOULD be disparity between large and small ships, a large ship SHOULD win, (in one on one) because it has MORE weapons and armor and shields, its a fact of life larger better things win,
    The disparsity I mean is not in capabilities between ships of different sizes but the ratio of their capabilities to requirements, price and risks involved. Since right now bigger = better, no matter stuff like actual intelligence and utility of design (merely a matter of combining enough blocks) and big is only slightly harder to get than small given blocks availability, we are in the bad situation where size creep is encouraged, rather than depending on the role of a ship.

    A fact of life isn't just that 'larger things win' and in real life, if you want to play that card, 'better' also isn't always 'larger'. Size is often dictated by the role and the balance of the use of often expensive, very limited resources and the effectiveness of whatever the resources were spent on affected by limited ability to process said resources. It is not how it is in the game as, due to necessary simplicity, resources are nearly infinite, processing them to create something doesn't require any special skills or industrial base and utility of different spaceships in nearly every case scales with their size no matter their role and equally in every aspect. That is what is a problem.

    Plus you, this crew takes up space, you're not getting free buffs or anything, besides that a small ship would run just fine without crew.
    But the disparsity of relative improvement of capabilities of big ships and small ones get even bigger. Because extending the hull to even bigger to make even more space for more buffing-up crew isn't hard nor expensive, yet provides additional power to said ship. There's absolutely no fair counterpart of that in case of small ships. Thus, while crew would become a feature increasing strength of bigger ships, with them being merely a buff/useful addition rather than a requirement the problem already officially acknowledged by Schine and big part of community - capability of big ships scaling often unfairly with the size - becomes even worse.

    Instead of encouraging range of ships for different tasks, the idea of buffs as so far shown would lead to necessity of making as big ships as possible. That would be rather sad both from the standpoint of balance AND aesthetics. Right now at least division of certain mass among multiple smaller ships makes them powerful as a collective - with the crew being additional buff even that wouldn't be the case.

    Plus if you give people advantages for having a crew at least some people are going to want to have a crew, if not just for the role play value than for the advantages a crew brings.
    I don't want the crew to be there just for roleplay value. And I am sure you'll notice that if you'll sacrifice some time to read again the posts I've made in this thread, including the one you're quoting. I don't want crew to be a decoration nor I want it to be buff - I want it to be vital, necessary element absolutely required by big ships for them to maintain their default capabilities, adding a degree of complexity and requirement of player to design their ship well, instead of following, again, the aforementioned fashion of 'we want stronger ship? let's just pile up more blocks'.

    The best thing in a game, atleast in my mind is to have different ways of doing things, that opens the door for creativity and new ideas, and ways for those ideas to be made.
    I already regarded the bit about creativity before. Having alternatives and several ways to go about doing stuff is good, I agree, but in this case I hope for crew to be integral part of the mechanics of creation of bigger vessels because it'd make for a great tool for balance and encouragement of smart ship design. Making it merely an alternative to a bunch of blocks more wouldn't be creative in my opinion, it would be a waste.

    Creativity is important but it should never come at the price of gameplay. I'd rather have somewhat limited in certain regards but well-balanced and thought-through game than 'whatever goes' sandbox block combiner. That's why we do have mechanics and we have certain rules. Otherwise we could as well complain that for the sake of creativity, there shouldn't be this or that limitation - vide post above regarding AI ships and divine spaceship of kickass.

    Remember, many of the larger ships on this website, available for download, have interiors already and room for a crew, why on earth would they stop making ships like that, if we gave them benefits for doing so.
    Why on earth would the stop making ships like that in general, no matter if we give them benefits or not? They don't make those ships for any minmaxing mechanics now, after all. I'd rather think of a way to implement crew as a working, good feature on its own which may require interior rather by-the-way, rather than simple buff used as a bait to encourage people to make interiors to get more power.