Ship Categorization (Official / Unofficial) [poll]

[rece ktore leczo]

As we got new tool - poll - i'd like to ask You if You want ANY type of ship categories. I know the Community already made a few of these, but as they are not widely known, there is no use of them. Also i know that Devs are against it. But maybe if enough players answer show interest, the Devs would think once again about implementing such system.

But how would it work? What would be the basics of such categories?

Well, it doesn't matter right now.


What matters now is the interest of players for such thing and after the interest in that topic is shown, there could be another polls, suggestions, etc.





I'll write some suggestions on the type of categorization but mine sole purpose is to give You idea how it may look

Ship categories based on:
- DPS
- DPS/shields
- mass
- size
- thrust
- e/sec
- main DPS weapon type (after update)
- storage containers/mass (if we get finite plex storages)
- value of ship
- etc.

Categorization could affect the game hud (different diamonds) with the ability to change categories when playing. Of course players wouldn't know every stats of opponents ship, so there would be a space for infiltration/spying.

This is just an example of such mechanic, the specifics could be diametrically changed.


Also there is an idea that players would be able to use their own (unofficial) categories in-game. I.e. downloading/making their own categories, uploading to game and using them.



If there would be enough interest in that topic, i can post here or make new thread with ideas of how such thing could work.

 

[Cirdanoth]

I believe classification should not be forced on people from above. While it would be interesting to have different radar indicators of size or danger, I do not feel they should be linked to things like 'cruiser' or 'dreadnought', 'carrier' or 'salvaging barge'. Let people decide for themselves, individually, what these things mean to them.

People like building small ducky ships, and calling them frigates or even battlecruisers. Let them. Similarly, let those whom call their humongous ships 'frigates' be.
Classification is our attempt at pushing things in small lil' boxes, to make 'em more understandable...
But people each define these things very differently, and preferably, as they please. And humans just can't be understood, when it comes to definitions.

This is a sandbox. Let people decide for themselves. If they honestly wanted a streamlined system, wouldn't they've long since jumped on the bandwagon of one of the earlier classifications? Clearly, because new systems keep being invented, they cannot agree with the older ones, either due to flaws in them, or simply a desire to create something of their own.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

That's why there is an answer "yes for unofficial".

The unofficial categorization would be made by players, but the Devs would only give us possibility of easy changing the indicators, names, etc. for another ships.


Let's just for this example pretend that we know every stats of other ship

While in-game, we could load our custom categories, which i.e. treats about mass of the ship.
the categories would be (hardly simplified; with some basic names and signs):
0-200 mass - easy target; sign "$"
200-1000 mass - could be done; sign "?"
1000-infinite mass - RUN; sign "!"

but also we could load categories based upon DPS, and many other factors. And the boundries, names and factors of each category we could customize.

Of course in reality we would need a spying device to tell the stats of other ships, so this system would need new mechanics.

 

[Cirdanoth]

Does this suggestion not pertain more to having more advanced sensory devices, rather than a formal classification being present within the game-code, or the option to customize such?

Also, would it not be better to estimate the other objects, relative to the ship or station you are currently in control of..?

 

[Snapems]

I would kind of like a fan-agreed upon classification for ships specifically for docking. Like "Class C dock". So if your ship was of Class C or below, you could dock on it.
The only problem is that docking is based off of the core, rather than width/length. - So if that could be resolved, then this would be really useful.

If such a classification by width/height/length isn't enough - then it could be suffixed or prefixed.. "C Class Destroyer" etc. <3.

But the only point to such a classification to me, would be for docking. And then let other people define their name. I.E. Someone would say this is a C Type Battleship, and another would say a C Type Corvette, to know that they can both fit on the same dock is the only thing particularly useful for other players to know.

The same could be applied to turrets also - and then sharing turret designs would be really easy and awesome.

 

[rece ktore leczo]

Does this suggestion not pertain more to having more advanced sensory devices, rather than a formal classification being present within the game-code, or the option to customize such?

When using sensory devices, it's a good idea that diamonds of scanned ship would change, partially showing the results of such scanning.

Also, would it not be better to estimate the other objects, relative to the ship or station you are currently in control of..?

Yeah, it might be good, but we would still need different boundaries of such thing, like ships below 70% of Your mass, etc. And these could be hard set by Devs or be customizable.

My idea was mostly for the purpose of changing diamonds of ships, as now Isanths are shown the same way as 200k mass ships.
And i'd rather have an official categorization, but as i know it has too many flaws for other players, the customizable categorization (for me) is quite a good solution.

Anyway, as for now there is no major difference between numbers of players who do/do not want this in game, i'll stop pushing the idea.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

The most I see being viable is server based classifications. I would not want any classifications forced on us as not everybody has the same idea or ability to build ships to the same spec. I wouldn't be opposed to having systems in place to facilitate classifications on servers.

I usually browse over them when people post their classifications and see how my ships fit in but ultimately I like using my own classifications. Ultimately Starmade is a sandbox game and should not impose any limitations that are not directly linked to game balance. Forcing people to build into set boxes/classes will only stifle creativity.

And honestly I imagine not many people would be happy with an official classification considering on how many there have been over time. I also imagine based on how starmade has been balanced so far (power softcap) that Schema favors smaller ships over titans which are generally the goal of a lot of starmade players to build while others with less fantastic machines will never be able to accomplish or some may not even like big ships and find 1000, 2000 m+ ships outlandish and un-realistic

 

[Ithirahad]

I'd like it to be custom and per-faction. No official classifications, even if they're just aesthetic; it's limiting and counterproductive.

 

[Zedrackis]

I'm not big on the per-faction idea. I like a classification server wide. Think of it in a real life perspective. All navys have a classification for battleship that fit with in a certain range of common variables. But that doesn't mean there are some strange and odd battleships.

For Example the pocket battleship: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschland-class_cruiser
( Which is not the smallest battleship on record, just the smallest used in WWII )

Having a common server wide classification creates three new options for latter on.

• Admin's can mark classifications they don't want on their server for purposes of role play or performance and easily spot them in space.
• Players can easily spot ships out of the league of their current ship. Giving them the chance to turn and run while they still have time.
• NPC pirates could be latter be redone so admins could pick how many and which ship class will spawn in response to player ships. Allowing them to say spawn packs of fighters for smaller ships of packs of destroyers for more established players running mid range or larger capitals.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

I'm not big on the per-faction idea. I like a classification server wide. Think of it in a real life perspective. All navys have a classification for battleship that fit with in a certain range of common variables. But that doesn't mean there are some strange and odd battleships.

For Example the pocket battleship: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschland-class_cruiser
( Which is not the smallest battleship on record, just the smallest used in WWII )

Having a common server wide classification creates three new options for latter on.

• Admin's can mark classifications they don't want on their server for purposes of role play or performance and easily spot them in space.
• Players can easily spot ships out of the league of their current ship. Giving them the chance to turn and run while they still have time.
• NPC pirates could be latter be redone so admins could pick how many and which ship class will spawn in response to player ships. Allowing them to say spawn packs of fighters for smaller ships of packs of destroyers for more established players running mid range or larger capitals.

We don't need classifications to do any of those things.

• If you want servers to be able to limit large ships you don't need to first specify a large classification and then restrict it, why not just restrict based on size right off the bat.
• I would like to have to add sensors to ships, the better your sensors the more you can learn about targets, size, power output, thrust. That would be much better than looking at a ship and have "frigate" under the name or something as well as adding another component to ship building.
• Hopefully we will get more control over NPCs in the future such as having fully custom AI factions that can have their own ships and specific control over the spawn rates

 

[ltmauve]

Well, having a comprehensive, customizable class system (for a server) would allow easier things such as having AI fleets show up and be appropriate to the size of the fleet the players have, or maybe limiting the number of titans a faction can have, or any other method of balance.

 

[Sven_The_Slayer]

Well, having a comprehensive, customizable class system (for a server) would allow easier things such as having AI fleets show up and be appropriate to the size of the fleet the players have, or maybe limiting the number of titans a faction can have, or any other method of balance.

Oh yeah, I am not against servers having any rule set they want such as classification. It would be good if the backbone of a class system was in place for servers to utilize but I don't support an "Official" classification forced on everybody.

In my Custom AI thread back on the old site (I'll import it at some point) I think I discussed options regarding setting up fleets.

 

[MossyStone48]

I personal prescribe the DaMaSCuS system
http://goo.gl/zUqUSC

It can be revised for future builds and has a CIC setup. Credit goes to The Imperial Donut for creating it. It's based loosely on a combination of the Nameless, Donut and Blitzwing systems. I see some hints of the Calbiri system in there too.

 

[Fwyrl]

I would like a "Community Official" categorization system for the wiki, though I would prefer it stays out-of-game.