Force-field Emitter (secondary shielding?)

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    I'm imagining a controller/enhancer style system that actually builds simple virtual structures out of force-field blocks.

    • The controllers would be toggled from logic or the flight menu.
    • The controllers can be set to project a plane, partial cylinder or partial sphere.
    • The dimensions of the shape projected would be some multiple of the dimensions of the enhancer block group.
    • The continual energy draw while engaged would be (some multiple of the number of enhancer blocks) + (some multiple of the number of virtual force-field blocks being projected)
    • Virtual force field (VFF) blocks are only generated where no other block exists.
    • VFF blocks are generated as the projector is activated. (the initial power draw should be a substantial multiple of the continual power draw)
    • The VFF system draws no power while deactivated.
    • VFF blocks are massless, but have hit points.
    • VFF blocks are projected in a single layer 1 block thick (plane, partial-cylinder, or half-sphere)
    • VFF blocks are all removed if their projector is deactivated or destroyed (or runs out of energy).
    • VFF blocks are NOT regenerated or healed until the next time the emitter is activated. (or maybe they regenerate slowly)
    • There should be an uncomfortable cooldown period between switching off a VFF emitter and reactivating the same emitter. (maybe based on the size of the VFF array)
    • VFF blocks act like hull blocks in that they block incoming and outgoing fire, except for main-guns mounted on the same structure as the VFF emitter.

    This adds considerable strategic challenge to both attacker and defender.
    The attacker must contend with a layered and regeneratable shield defense system. But he has the ability to focus attacks on a single field, and small craft might even be able to maneuver INSIDE the VFF fields of a much larger vessel. For the defender, he must balance VFF coverage against power draw. A fighter may use VFFs to project only foreward and aft, then use his maneuverability never to present a flank to the enemy. A dreadnaught might choose to use VFFs to cover key systems, using standard shields and armor. A station that doesn't need power to move might opt for a massive or even layered VFF system. Due to power constraints a defender might have to make the difficult choice between re-initializing a ragged VFF field or channeling that power into a desperate jump for safety. In a battle between two capitol ships, a defender might be able to roll or rotate a damaged VFF out of the line of fire long enough to re-initialize it. For really creative shipwrights I can even imagine small VFF projection units riding on logic-driven rails to strategically deploy cover as a point-defense system. Or mounted as small directional defenses on turrets.

    I guess the point is that I see potential in this idea to make the game strategically richer... as long as the game can stand up to what I recognize as a potentially engine brutalizing game dynamic.

    Thoughts?
    [DOUBLEPOST=1430202689,1430200276][/DOUBLEPOST]Here's an example of the idea, in case you were having trouble visualizing it. That's 7 individual field emitters. a hemispherical field in front, 4 partial cylinders protecting the body of the ship, 1 each protecting the anterior of the nacelles. starmade-screenshot-0028.png
     

    Blaza612

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    I see what you're idea is, and I personally think it's a great idea for strategy, however, this does allow for massively OP ships. So maybe have it that you need someone else inside the ship (in astro mode) in order to activate the VFF, creating a reason for a crew. Not only that, but I'm thinking that this could either replace the current shields, and the VFF properties (block strength/hitpoints, duration it stays on for and power draw) could rely on the current shield systems modifiers, making having a big and strong VFF expensive. This would also create demand for armour to have more resistance, and would make hull/armour worth something in a PVP battle. Alternatively, we could have the VFF draw power from the shield system, while still having the current shield system. Effectively, the VFF would take a certain amount of percentage of the shield system, and whats left is the entire vanilla shield system while the VFF is on/recharging, forcing the VFF to be strong, but require a strategic balance to have one on a ship.

    Overall a good idea, just needs some more discussion to make it easily a thing to implement! ^_^
     

    Keptick

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    BUBBLE SHIELDS GAIS!!!

    *ahem*

    Sorry, I couldn't hold myself. Assuming that I read it properly, such systems with a virtual bubble or plane or whatever shape have been suggested in the past and shot down. The main issue is the performance hit that such a system would cause iirc.

    Directly generating blocks like you suggested might work though. It's an interesting concept, I have to admit.

    Edit; If the forcefield blocks aren't invisible than the sheer amount of surface area that a decently sized shield would have would just cripple any normal computer. So many sides to render, it'd be a computational nightmare.
     
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    I'd seen the perennial bubble-shield threads, but this seemed just enough off that concept that it might fly. I'd thought about maybe having "healthy" VFFs be invisible, then maybe flash visible for a moment as they are damaged.... Or maybe the only way to tell that there is a VFF in operation is your missiles detonate prematurely. (shrug) It's just an idea. like all the rest, it only deserves implementation if it survives us beating it up :)
     
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    NeonSturm

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    A few flaws, how will you fix em?
    1. Regenerative Power
      • Big ships will get a far better regeneration compared to small ships
      • The survivor will always be penalized far less than the failed - even if the margin was only a +5% regeneration (assuming other stats are the same).
    2. How much LAG can we expect? How will unloaded chunks behave?
    3. Will the combat ever last long enough so that you have a choice of reactivating an emitter?

    Do you mean a shield build out of blocks which are reset-able and only exist while powered?
    +1 Why don't you say that in a short summary?​

    Edit; If the forcefield blocks aren't invisible than the sheer amount of surface area that a decently sized shield would have would just cripple any normal computer. So many sides to render, it'd be a computational nightmare.
    ShieldProjector.png Perhaps you find something interesting in this pic I made earlier. Something to improve your suggestion.
    It was designed for different emitters and low lag.

    You calculate at positions projected "from the middle of the whatever" "through the point" "to the boundary-box" where a simple 2-bit array or binary tree of triangle separations could do the detection work with low LAG.

    Then you go back to our current position and do the math we have now, adding math which uses the results from above.​

    I see what you're idea is, and I personally think it's a great idea for strategy, however, this does allow for massively OP ships. So maybe have it that you need someone else inside the ship (in astro mode) in order to activate the VFF, creating a reason for a crew.
    It's just an idea. like all the rest, it only deserves implementation if it survives us beating it up :)
    Nice summary GaeasSon!

    Blaza612 have you seen the part where the shield consists of single blocks rather than an all-covering-value?
    It might be less OP than what we currently have as shield.
     
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    Snk

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    I think the original concept is sound, guys. We shouldn't shoot down a good idea because of optimization or minor balancing issues.

    Off topic: This could sort of be done in-game now. With rails. Essentially, a ship that has Force field blocks like in the picture, and has a shield generator hidden somewhere and is docked to a larger ship to protect it.
     

    NeonSturm

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    Off topic: This could sort of be done in-game now. With rails. Essentially, a ship that has Force field blocks like in the picture, and has a shield generator hidden somewhere and is docked to a larger ship to protect it.
    No it can't.
    Except, you can now repair some ship's blocks for free but they disappear while without e and you can you ignore the logistic of moving parts and I missed this addition to the game.​

    I think the original concept is sound, guys. We shouldn't shoot down a good idea because of optimization or minor balancing issues.
    Agree, I posted a partial solution above.
     
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    like so many of the other ideas in this forum, I am loving this one. Very sound Idea. However, i couldn't quite picture what you were talking about here:
    Alternatively, we could have the VFF draw power from the shield system, while still having the current shield system. Effectively, the VFF would take a certain amount of percentage of the shield system, and whats left is the entire vanilla shield system while the VFF is on/recharging, forcing the VFF to be strong, but require a strategic balance to have one on a ship.
    Could you explain in more detail how it would be using the current system of shields pls?
     

    Blaza612

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    Blaza612 have you seen the part where the shield consists of single blocks rather than an all-covering-value?
    It might be less OP than what we currently have as shield.
    Yes, I understand that it is blocks, I guess it might not be as OP as normal shields, but what I suggested would force it to increase, but would still have a good reason to not to use it on certain ships, I don't want to see every single ship with this kind of shield. :P

    Could you explain in more detail how it would be using the current system of shields pls?
    My idea is that the VFF reserves a certain amount of the shield percentage, and whenever it is activated, that shield percentage is no longer able to be used by the standard shields. Hopefully that's easier to understand. :p
     

    NeonSturm

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    My idea is that the VFF reserves a certain amount of the shield percentage, and whenever it is activated, that shield percentage is no longer able to be used by the standard shields. Hopefully that's easier to understand. :p
    Yes, you exchange
    max capacity -> regenerative blocks with maybe more overall-HP.
    But since these regenerative blocks are NOT around your complete ship, the regenerative power is not that much op.

    (Alternatively)
    Perhaps math could be:
    vffPlate .efficiency
    = ((diff. (sum. ship .x .y .z) , (sum. plate .x .y .z) )) / (sum. ship .x .y .z)

    IT balances vffPlates which have a shield for all blocks too.
    THE shortest axis could be reduced by checking the fewest blocks in a line.
    If there are (not only performance-heavy) ways to do that.​
    (Example)
    'frontal plate1 .efficiency
    'sum_ship = (sum. ship 48x 32y 64z) = 124
    'sum_plate = (sum. 'frontal plate1 48x 32y 1z) = 81
    = (diff. sum_ship , sum_plate) / sum_ship
    = (diff. 124 , 81) / 124 = 43 / 124
    = 34.68%
    Linking
    anyBlocks >> "useful new block" genericArraySelector .or. genericDoorSelector
    vffShields >> vffEmitterController < 'slaved generic(Array|Door)Selector
    anyBlocks : are used as shield (to generate the plate and texture -> aka holographic armour @ Borg's Transwarp Network Hive)
    vffShields : each block supports (config)shield.capacity which is transferred to the anyBlocks-shield at (Example)plate.efficiency
    Linking vffShields like described above, would allow you to have multiple emitters for the same anyBlocks.

    maybe the vffEmitterController may accept Ion-Effect slaves to re-increase efficiency of plate.efficiency?
    EDIT: I hope the colour-guides help navigating and linking description+usage through this long piece of text.
     
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    nice idea, i like it, but i think there will be a balance issue

    btw, NeonSturm can you please further explain your codes?
    every time i read your reply, i get headache because i only know a bit of coding.
    Think about those who don't code at all. they will be hard to understand your idea/solution