The awesome new combat meta

[BDLS]

So, now what do we do about those who choose to fight by jumping in, launching swarmers, then jumping back out to recharge?

This is lame.

tl-note: not so new but whatever

 

[Keptick]

Some people are pathetic enough to do that? This is kinda sad.

 

[Drakkart]

hmmm well swarmers are slow my pdts normally are able to tke em down before they can reach me.
my cannons are vry quick though.

 

[BDLS]

hmmm well swarmers are slow my pdts normally are able to tke em down before they can reach me.
my cannons are vry quick though.

PD might stop the missiles, but you're not going to be able to do any damage if the enemy warp drive is powerful enough.

Also, I'm thinking that the scanner should have a larger range than a measly 2 sectors inside enemy space. Maybe increase scanner range to ping ships that have fired recently? I don't know, just a thought.

 

[NeonSturm]

Maybe increase scanner range to ping ships that have fired recently? I don't know, just a thought.

+ sound-absorbers => light absorbers (=less dps/block) : for space guns to evade detection? Just an idea

I like the idea of guns increasing your scan-signature.

 

[Lecic]

hmmm well swarmers are slow my pdts normally are able to tke em down before they can reach me.
my cannons are vry quick though.

Pretty much every large server has a much higher speed limit, without boosted AI accuracy. This leads to faster missiles that also can't be shot down.

 

[Keptick]

One solution (and pretty much the only solution) is to stay on the move. That way when the person warps back in you'll be out of range of the swarms, and they'll either have to get in range or jump again (if they get closer you could get shots off before they jump).

If someone is doing this against a station that's not a homebase then you're kinda f*cked. I'd say use very powerful long range cannon/beam/ion and missile/beam/explosive hybrids (which both have the best travel times in the game). If they're powerful enough the cannons will instantly strip the target of it's shields and the missiles will smash in one or two seconds later, hopefully making holes where it hurts. It's a fearsome combo tbh, but has it's shortcomings against multiple targets.

Honestly, there isn't much that can be done. Not being able to warp right after firing weapons would certainly help. Perhaps the inability to warp when weapons are reloading (excluding turrets, because a player has no way of controlling those)? That'd certainly balance out ships that rely on overkill alpha damage and trololol warp away once they take an ounce of damage. Being able to warp out mid-combat is stupidly un-balanced anyways. It makes non-alpha weapons completely useless as a player can just jump out if they're under 50% shields, making alpha weapons like missile/beam the only viable weapon in order to kill someone.

I've seen footage of a certain player jumping out of combat (while being shot by a smaller ship) on three different occasions. It's fucking pathetic.

 

[NeonSturm]

Perhaps the inability to warp when weapons are reloading? That'd certainly balance out ships that rely on overkill alpha damage and trololol warp away once they take an ounce of damage.

I like this - this makes clockers more useful again.

 

[Keptick]

I like this - this makes clockers more useful again.

Exactly. There's so many gameplay elements that are being hurt by this warp-even-when-half-your-ship-got-blown-to-shit mechanic. In fact, I'd say that it's the number one cause of imbalance at the moment.

Let's see what it makes impossible/useless right now; ambushes, usage of constant DPS weapons, team-work to take down a target (doesn't matter, it'll jump away), non-instakill kills, taking down heavily shielded bricks, taking down f*cking jump swarmers, and I'm sure that I missed stuff.

Until some form of interdiction is added to the game, I think that jump-drives shouldn't work when a ship's weapons are reloading (because warping out in combat shouldn't be completely removed, just balanced out with different roles). Want to have the ability to jump out at any time? Sure, just use weapons with a high rate of fire like cannon-cannon. On the flip-side you won't have the ability to instantly kill an enemy. This should make combat last longer and be more interesting.

 

[NeonSturm]

team-work to take down a target (doesn't matter, it'll jump away)

Will still be impossible if the target has no weapons on cooldown, thus can jump away :p

 

[Keptick]

Will still be impossible if the target has no weapons on cooldown, thus can jump away :p

Well yea, but if it has no weapons on cooldown that means that it either didn't shoot you or has constant damage weapons, which wouldn't overpower a task force by instantly killing one of the members (since you can't do that unless the ship is really really bigger). To be honest I think that it's fine.

The problem here is being able to shoot and instantly jump out. An interdiction mechanic would solve the problem you stated. However, even with interdiction, a mechanic like the one I'm suggesting should be necessary. I mean, you can't be expected to have an interdiction system on every single ship in order to not get killed by a cheap tactic, right?

 

[EtherEel]

Mr. Popularity weighs in on multi-player combat tactics despite being a single-player player:

I favor ostracism of your fellow players who would resort to petty, cowardly tactics. And/or you could gang-up on them and chase them to the ends of the universe.... just to make your point fully, brilliantly illuminated.

This is not bullying; it is enforcing a code of conduct.

You're Welcome.
~ee

 

[NeonSturm]

True...

The problem I see is that with 3x scale = 27x volume = 27x damage

= as powerful as 30-sec reload guns in just a single second.
4x scale = 64x volume, twice as strong.
NOTE : Battle-cubes may require 3/5 scale = 1/4 as much volume.
​

Your patrol would be either completely over-or-under--powered which make engagements rather boring and predictable.


Perhaps public pre-spawned Gates could help for a common ship size

(bigger ships will have less gates available to them, thus you push it to the very max of the next step or stay a step lower).​

If non-squares are allowed, I'll build my gates X or V-shaped to make my gates not usable by builds from somebody else :D
Else I will just cover it partially with hulls, or would that break it?

Will make nice gate-species.

First Classification System for WarpGates (AFAIK):


Sizes are minima, not maxima for that classification.
1st number = minimum number of bits to represent minimum diameter.
2nd or 3rd number = size ratio (larger / smaller), rounded down.

1st Alphanumeric = lower axis size (diameter)

• binary = dezimal = Name _infix_ Gate = 1st char
• Default 0 = broken (1st) or no derivation (2nd) from standard gates.

1. broken | no derivation = Broken _ _ _ | _ Normed _
   
2. 0x10 = 2 = Personal _ Gate = 2 or P
   
3. 0x100 = 4 = Spy _ Gate = 3
   
4. 0x1000 = 8 = Scout _ Gate = 4
   
5. 0x1'0000 = 16 = Shuttle _ Gate = 5 or S
6. 0x100'0000 = 64 = Margin _ Gate = 7
7. 0x1000'0000 = 128 = Meridian _ Gate = 8 or M
8. 0x1'0000'0000 = 256 = Medium _ Gate = 9
   
9. 0x10'0000'0000 = 512 = Large _ Gate = A or L
   
10. 0x100'0000'0000 = 1024 = Hyper _ Gate = B or H

optional 2nd (with 3 numbers):

• same as 1st, but without the first bit in the bit-representation (derivation from standard sizes)

2nd or 3rd Alphanumeric = larger axis size : lower axis size

• ratio L:S = Name infix = 2nd char

1. 1:1 = _ Tailored _ = 1 or T (DEFAULT)
   
2. 3:2 or 4:3 = _ Uncommon _ = 2 or U
   
3. 2:1 = _ Wide _ = 2 or W
   
4. 3:1 = _ Extended _ = 3 or E
5. >=4 :1 = _ Anarchy _ = 4 or A

TO-DO:

• E and A may be hard to tell apart from 1st and 2nd letters.
• Need a few better names

Each gate could be fitted with power capacity for 2..4 ships, with collision-volumes the same size as the gate, but 1/8 of max volume (Allows some good shapes and is good for ships which easily fit through).

 

[Comr4de]

Mr. Popularity

uh huh

 

[CyberTao]

but if it has no weapons on cooldown that means that it either didn't shoot you or has constant damage weapons

Either that or they removed their computers, thus removing any and all cooldown.

Whats more, remember the Ra's main weapons are actually not part of the ship, but are 80 missiles locked and fired automatically from fixed-dock ships. I'm not saying I would ever jump someone with a battleship, but offloading your weapons to a docked entity would kinda negate what we trying to do. Instead, what if jumping triggered cooldowns itself (and refreshed upon subsequent jumps)? You wouldn't have to worry about oversized turrets/docked ships getting around the system if even turrets had to reload after a jump.

Part of the problem with jumping in with High-alpha is that you don't have time to react, this would grant you some time to either jump away or lock your own missiles.

 

[NeonSturm]

Instead, what if jumping triggered cooldowns itself (and refreshed upon subsequent jumps)? You wouldn't have to worry about oversized turrets/docked ships getting around the system if even turrets had to reload after a jump.

This would also give opportunity for low-alpha weapons.

 

[virtue1987]

You know what would also help? A mechanism that prevents ships from jumping in a (station)sector. You just jump to the egde of the sector, then you have to fly the rest. No more suprise jump on top of your head. What do you think?

 

[Drakkart]

i'd recommend haveing the ai accuracy over 200 in any case. even in a default singleplayer world

 

[EtherEel]

uh huh

Self-loathing sarcasm is a beautiful thing.

 

[Krougal]

There's a simple solution to this; no pre-charging jumpdrives.
So instead of how it is now, when you click to jump is when it starts charging and then jumps when finished.

This would also give reason to have a fast jump drive, other than to save you 20 seconds of holding the button down (and with this there would be no holding the button down....my god it's a WIN-WIN!).

I think the curve should be changed a little though, so if you have the 5% mass should be much faster than the current 24 or so seconds. It would give a fullsize drive more benefit, and also allow for more in between sizes.