Salvage Beams As Weapons

    Master_Artificer

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    I think it should steal cargo, either once shields are down or maybe at 50% or maybe even at full.


    Remember guys, weapon modules take resources to make, while salvages are almost essentially free.
     

    Lecic

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    I think it should steal cargo, either once shields are down or maybe at 50% or maybe even at full.


    Remember guys, weapon modules take resources to make, while salvages are almost essentially free.
    It should only steal cargo if the salvage beam directly hits the cargobay, so that would pretty much require shields to be down in the first place, unless people are going around with cargo exposed to space.

    Salvagers only costing mesh is a pretty good thing, since it'll help newbies out as well.
     
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    And what exactly is unbalanced about it just as salvage beams? And I'd think balancing 1 weapon instead of 4 weapons would be easier.
    you're misunderstanding...

    I'm saying AS A SUPPORT SYSTEM it will be easy to re-balance as needed. NOT modifying the BASE salvage system.
     

    Lecic

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    you're misunderstanding...

    I'm saying AS A SUPPORT SYSTEM it will be easy to re-balance as needed. NOT modifying the BASE salvage system.
    Yes. Why is it easier to balance as a support system?
     
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    So here are some reasons why this shit will NEVER happen.

    Right now salvagers actually have the highest dps in the game they do 1 damage per tick @ 40 ticks per second so thats 40 dps
    This is of course "virtual damage" and not real damage.
    So the first problem converting virtual damage to real damage
    Issue#1 The weapons system is pretty binary from what i can tell starmade uses simple systems for the most part so if a weapon does "actual damage" it will then be able to damage shields.

    Issue#2 if a special flag check is added to ships/stations with shields up how do you deal with 1000? 2000? 4000? 16000 potential you do not have permissions to alter said block pops all at one time.
    Further info each line of salavgers would have to individually realize that it can no longer do damage to said entity because shields are up it couldn't just be tied to the computer because its very possible to hit 2 different entities at one time and you have to be able to salvage the ones with no shields otherwise you could have incredibly stupid abuse cases where you put a whole bunch of cores with 1 shield recharger all over ur ship so that salvage beams are useless in combat negating this whole idea.
    Issue#3 how do you nerf the salvager weapon damage and not nerf mining (basically how do you make a stupid fluff interaction of an item not interfere with the items intended function?)

    Issue #4 how does the blocks having different amounts of actual hp effect mining? do you all of a sudden suck up dirt with only 5 salavagers since it only has 5 hp does it take more? Is any of this actual better or worth doing?
    Second problem Energy consumption

    Issue# salvagers take far less energy to power than regular weapons, this is pseudo balanced by function and a desire for large amounts of them for efficiency
    However like i said previously they actually have the highest dps of any weapon in the game for the cheapest energy cost how do you increase their energy cost without nerfing mining?

    Third Problem OMG THE LAG

    Issue#1 Salvagers already have issues with creating lag in large quantities just based on the blocks harvested the damage calculations number of ticks etc now you wanna add a whole new check to each tick of the salvager beams? Is this entity shielded.

    Real quick here i'ma talk about why this needs to be done in case you don't understand. An entity check will need to be done every tick to check if it is not done every tick you will have serious abuse cases where you "start" haversting on a planet and then swing your salavgers onto a shielded ship and suck all of its blocks out.
    Issue #2 docked shield reactors vs large cannon cannon ion turrets another possible lag inducing abuse case ship A has huge ion turrets and salvagers ship b has 30 1 recharger 1000 capacitor docked shield modules with a single shield transfer beam on each the number of state changes and salvager updates this would cause could easily lag down the game and lower spec computers.

    I can probably think of more stuff but i'll just wait If anyone has counter arguments for all of my points in favor of this idea that isn't worth implementing i'll continue to provide.


    Actually one last thing the coding for all of this isn't as simple as switching damage types u really need to think is it really worth all the work to have some crappy "other weapon" that is either too crappy to use or so broken it overshadows everything else?

    For every min maxer out there one of two things will happen either the weapons dps will be comparable to a regular weapon and it saves blocks so its the only thing worth using or its so nerfed as a weapon there is no reason to use it in any situation and it was completely worthless to do the work for in the first place. When you add an effect like TAKES ALL BLOCKS IT DESTROYS which is Superior to every other effect type in the game you can only have these 2 situations there is no middle ground.
     

    Lecic

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    Issue#1 The weapons system is pretty binary from what i can tell starmade uses simple systems for the most part so if a weapon does "actual damage" it will then be able to damage shields.
    Right, which is why we don't have piercing weapons that can't damage shields. Oh wait.

    Issue#3 how do you nerf the salvager weapon damage and not nerf mining (basically how do you make a stupid fluff interaction of an item not interfere with the items intended function?)
    Give ship blocks a higher virtual salvage HP? This isn't that hard to solve.

    Second problem Energy consumption

    Issue# salvagers take far less energy to power than regular weapons, this is pseudo balanced by function and a desire for large amounts of them for efficiency
    Do salvagers less than 1/10th of the power of normal weapons?
     

    Tunk

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    On starmades damage system,
    By default most weapons are 1:1 shield/block damage.
    A 40 damage projectile is actually 40 shield, 40 hull (easy way to demo this is to hit a shielded core with >220 damage).

    It appears damage can be targeted at stats so its not limited by the default shied/block.
    The tags in the config probably just tack it onto a damage list (eg Shield->40,Block->40,Power->0,Armour->0,HP->0,Salvage->0).
    Block damage being probably the special case, being that it has to run through armour reduction, armour hp, ship hp, block hp, etc.
    The other stats at most have to run into the stats reduction (eg emp -> damage - emp passive = damage to power)

    This seems to be how salvagers work as well, though they target a salvage counter which is tracked internally on the salvager rather than block.