Population : Figurehead NPC and/or Management for builders, Batch Invincibility for fighters (2)

[arkahys]

**Edit :**

1. this draft will be edited as some parts are rushed and a brainstorming (with your opinions too) is needfull.
2. Answers was interresting, so I Make a first step to explain me louder and change some not minded things.

I pass time to read related suggestion but none really go in the way I think. All go in an only way cash or bloc reward, that is what I reproach to starmade after 100h to play : what is interrest to play when I don't spend all my time to :

• PK, find happiness in strict domination of other player or NPC. weapons for me have more a defensive use than a direct interest.
• explore, even if there is no really interest to that actually.
• decorate build, because i love make my entities pretty but entities have to be usefull : spend many hours to a pretty structure who have no really ingame use dont make me want to.
  Before build i ask me what it is the purpose of structure. and sadly, i don't find anything to build usefull except fight ! So I have nothing to decorate !

The only interest in game I found seems to be : PvP, Creative. Actually I salvage, for money , and with money **results : no usefull build, no permanent cash consommation**. hmmm ... I'am happy to get 200M !!!
I would like a management part, then i have an interrest to build, to decorate, and earn money etc...
What about introduce population on structure ? I don't talk about make a SimCity, because it is more a possible enhanced part. I talk about
As many cake recips in cook books who have to be cooked to desire to eat it, I will detail a little what could be, for me, interesting :



The Main purpose ( by possibilities and deep of implementation) :

1. Give a feeling of populated universe by adding (mass) figurehead NPC (as actually crew do : jsut that is more than enough !).
2. Make a resources consumption to make interest to grow/explore/fight.. so play !
3. Get an other way to balance existing features.
4. Add modifier to more customize gameplay (fight, flight, industries)
5. add management Aspect (light or rich)

Setting Population :

• Some blocs add :
  • Bed : As the 1/4 white block, but draw on the 2nd 1/4.
    that allow making pillow on bloc :
    • 2 bed blocs are adjacent in XZ Plan :
      • put a pillow on 1 bloc. (2 blocs single bed) Reserve bloc next to pillow (in axe of bed)
      • If one bed or reserved bloc is in 7 square around (XZ plan) of each bedbloc, remove pillow (prevent XZ chessboard).
        On Y axe : If on 2 side of a bed bloc there is an other bed bloc, or any bloc above : remove pillow. So you can stack by 2 on Y (dormitory).
        
      • if 2 pillow are adjacent in Y : each pillow count 1,25
    • 2 bed blocs are adjacent in X and are adjacent to 2 in Z Plan :
      • Put pillows on 2 consecutive blocs. (4 blocs double bed) Reserve bloc next to pillow (in axe of bed)
      • If one bed or reserved bloc is added in 24 square around(XYZ) of each bloc or any bloc above bed, remove pillows (prevent XYZ chessboard)
        
      • If 2 pillow are adjacent on XZ plan : each pillow count 1,5
  • (not really need in firsts times)Food, rafined food, water.

Pillow define population Maximum, with equation (where "x" is number of Pillow in structure):
MaxPop = (2 * x^3)/(x²+1000)+x

Spoiler: MaxPop Table

1 = 1
[...]
7 = 8
8 = 9
9 = 10
10 = 12
15 = 21
20 = 31
[...]
100 = 282
200 = 590
300 = 893
400 = 1195
500 = 1496
600 = 1797
700 = 2097
800 = 2398
900 = 2698
1000 = 2998
[...]
2 000 = 5999
3 000 = 8999
4 000 = 12000
5 000 = 15000
6 000 = 18000
7 000 = 21000
8 000 = 24000
9 000 = 27000
10 000 = 30000
etc ...
100 000 = 300 000
200 000 = 600 000
300 000 = 900 000
400 000 = 1 200 000
500 000 = 1 500 000
600 000 = 1 800 000
700 000 = 2 100 000
800 000 = 2 400 000
900 000 = 2 700 000
1 000 000 = 3 000 000

following are only the strictly mininmal space of bedrooms without corridors, deco, etc...

Spoiler: dorminatory compact space

by room of 40 beds/pillows (89 pop) = 6x4x9
1 000 (2998 pop) = 20x9x30
1 000 000 (3m pop) = 160x150x225

Spoiler: big bedroom compact space

by room of 1 bed (3 pillows, 3 pop) = 3x3x4
1 000 pillows (2998 pop) = 15x15x48
1 000 000 pillows (3m pop) = 192x150x355

NPC appear around all their room in ratio of population, players can't interact with them (maybe except "push from here"). they just move from bed rooms to other "population rooms" by following roofs and walls.
Just that will be awesome. A really better view of big station, giving pleasure to stroll in hudge structure.



Ideas of management Aspect (light or rich) :

Population have 2 moods : happiness (-10 to 10) and angry (-10 to 10 but under 0 is a tolerance to angry, no more).
The purpose is that you can have very angry but totally happy population( the dark side ?!? lol)
the base of mood is set by quality of bed.
i will don't give equation there because is very more fine tune... but purpose is to set these 2 moods starting by 0 :

• single bed set few neg point to happiness but give a multiplicator to all happiness and angry applied after "bed set" is done
• double bed set few pos points to happiness and reduce angry points applied after "set bed".
• A hull of empty block around bedrooms are created (As for reactors actually but in negative). :
  • Numbers of bed in the hull : too many beds set negs points to angry.
  • Numbers of empty blocs / bed : too low will set neg point to happiness.
  • if one door lead to an other bedroom, set big neg point to happiness by door.
  • no closed hull by bloc or door (open on space) set happiness to -10.

Then population live with this set of moods.
4 rooms (same purpose as hull bedroom's for size) can be created by existing decorative blocs , all use energy but on ships cost money ( to ship be a not profitable structure to long term population):

• Hospital (with medical blocs) : size/pop= give happiness points (low or high if the ratio is good or bad)
• media room ( with decorative screen) : same as last point, but red screen give extra angry points.
  
• library (with decorative computer) : same as last point (orange give angry points)
• restaurant ( decorative panel, can't find better bloc) : give (restore or lower if too tiny size) happiness over time.

You can grow your population by 3 way :

• visit planets, where homeless (for the firsts time, no need to add homes on planets) are subjugated by your technology and want to rally you.
• On some neutral space station or faction, you can impress some of them.
• the trade guild could give bases where get a little bit of population...
• by the natural growing in your stations
• with players ennemie encounter :
  • by capture (so jails) on ennemies ships/stations but they will stay (and grow in your pop) angry. all can be added to your population
  • by propose them to join you, less part join but they have no angry.

If happiness start to lowering , in all the sector there is (I expose idea, sure there is better):
(effect appear gradualy and randomly, numbers are for the degree of unhapiness)

• For angry population (more than 0) revolt :
  1. random destruction of blocs
  2. plunder of cargo and money
  3. docking problem
  4. friendly fire
  5. Random reactor instability
• For "peacefull" (less than 0) depression :
  1. depopulation
  2. AI disfonction
  3. undocking problem
  4. weapons radomly(time) halted
  5. random no power recharge

(See below invicibility to see link) It is possible to send kind of "spy" to revolt/depress population :

• Can be done only on big population, As in little "community" everybody know everybody, so that's impossible
• Spies use slander on player (chief !?) actions to decribilize it. Then only when you are connected you can "lost your population". They don't do anything when you aren't connected. you can't lost your bases when you are offline.
• spies need a room set by decorative charts, who consume a lot of power and monopolise a part of population : always consumers, but no positive effects : less divisor of damage (see below)

Make a resources consumption :

Restaurant could simply use an ore or other harvestable ressource to auto-synthetize food
More simple just use money : To balance they add bonus. (As I think the live of people don't make money but just make them happy who make reward, willpower ?!? )
If think about adding food,etc.. (as a timed auto consumption) :

• food give more money than cost to get. Increase a little happiness
• rafined food give less money than cost to get. increase more happiness.
• no water reduce population over time

balance existing features :
As I read someting about "we will concidere to remove homebase invincibility" for answer to a request. I take the lead to not see it disappear, by some idea to balance it :
Invicibilty is could be removed but :

• on planets and stations population happy make them imunised to player attacks by willpower .
  the goal is to immunise homebase of little player and less when growing, kind of settings :
  • If ( mass of structure (+docked) / ( pop * happiness) > 100 ) then remove immunity
  • mass of structure is divided by 2 for homebase. then immunity is quite impossible for secondary stations if they are armed or powerfull.
  With "spy", time, an tactic even an homebase (big players) can be taken.
  Time = that's the good point, you can't loose your homebase in one 1 hour, because seeing happiness decrease, and decrease, more and more incidents, then you have time prepare your escape or counter attack your opponent (who have a hole in his "immunity")...

Advanced factory need population to work. As actually there is no difference to get and craft objects in basic, standard and advanced factory, all are as simple.



Ideas of add modifier to more customize gameplay :

• There is total population for faction. the "alignement" of population give bonus multiplied by the total of population (degressive).
  could be also a tree system where you choose wich bonus you want, but always with a difference by the alignement.
  ideas of bonus :
  • for ones :
    • wepons fire power,
    • more power efficiency
    • max HP shield
    • less thruster needed
    • less population needed
    • less needs of population
    • powerfull salvage
    • less price of items in trade guild
    • ...
  • For others :
    • weapons rate
    • less stabilisater
    • armor regen
    • higher max speed
    • Population max higher
      
    • easy way to make population happy
    • more efficiency salavge (more items by blocks)
    • more stock to buy to trade guild
    • ....
• Big population attract pirates, but in groups more big according to population. (more SP interest)

Aside that many things could be done in kind of simCity or Civilisation but become a suggestion on a suggestion.

All of this is a draft of adds as balances.. but what do you think about that ? may have other ideas in this way ?

 

[NTIMESc]

I'm not sure about all the specifics you went into, but I think the idea of adding beds to determine crew capacity has merit.
I also really like the idea of giving decorative blocks a purpose.

 

[arkahys]

I'm not sure about all the specifics you went into, but I think the idea of adding beds to determine crew capacity has merit.
I also really like the idea of giving decorative blocks a purpose.

First : thanks to give your opinion.
Yes, that's why i talk about ideas for moods, effects to actual gameplay and rooms to give management effect (aside, where is no real management over time in these sentences... lol ), ideas are more brainstorming.
I wrote this in a row and some parts was more to warrant what was wrote before, the base suggestion was :

• get citizen : "decorative NPC" in structures who as no direct utility on structure and battle to give gameplay for player who focus more on building than fighting aspect.
• Using space by bed for introduce capacity NPC.

When I wrote and I finished bed ideas who was the main (and better) idea I get, I ask me "but for what ?", then I wrote some ideas (I admit may a little slovenly) for population and effect on actual gameplay.
that's why there is equation and number for capacity NPC and not for following.

I talk about draft, I will edit this to give more consistency and interest.
As I relatively new on this game, All opinion of other players and more detailled answer, as much was liked as disliked, could give me matter to think to find interesting others ideas to complete and enhance this suggestion !
Separating ideas i wrote after, opinions are wanted as it's not a want but a possibility, what about :

• such idea to give a non permanent immunity.
• get population for builder oriented players.
• give soft bonus with population
• Possibility to "touch" population to weak player.

 

[MacThule]

I like the idea of function for population and decorative blocks - be sure to look back over the older posts here; there are many suggestions on the topic.

I strongly oppose any more invincibility of any sorts. HB invulnerability already fuels too much stagnation. Bonuses, sure. Outright invulnerability is bad for the game though.

 

[alterintel]

I like the idea of maintaining a population and worrying about their happiness/revolt.
I like the idea of growing population
I like the idea of population giving bonus
I like the spy idea

I don't like population affecting Home Base protection. It just doesn't make sense that a population of people can make a structure take less damage.

I also don't like the time aspect with regards to home base protection. Even if you logon in time before your base dies, what can you do about it if you're up against overwhelming odds. The best / most depressing thing you can do at that point is watch your base burn. Very sad

 

[Skwidz]

There are some pretty nice ideas in there but I'm not entirely sure about the food idea. It might get added since it's "Minecraft in space" but the game's more of a space combat/building game and not really a city management game but it could have an element of that once the universe update starts to exist beyond being just a bunch of ideas. We'll have to see what the npc and crew fixes do.

 

[arkahys]

I don't like population affecting Home Base protection. It just doesn't make sense that a population of people can make a structure take less damage.

the "imunity part" is about an answer from dev i read who they "will considere remove of invincibility of homebases", So I talk about that to take the lead and propose some alternate to not see it disappear...
it is effectivily totally doesn't make sense, but less than an homebase invincibility. That can may be a little bit explain by willpower as StarWars, etc.... But again, the purpose of that is to give a partial invincibilty to not to lost the all.

There are some pretty nice ideas in there but I'm not entirely sure about the food idea. It might get added since it's "Minecraft in space" but the game's more of a space combat/building game and not really a city management game but it could have an element of that once the universe update starts to exist beyond being just a bunch of ideas. We'll have to see what the npc and crew fixes do.

For the building part : that's what i said at beginning, I love the build part, but except for fight there is no interest to build aside see my beautifful building : the same thing as minecraft ! I'am not sure that implement a city management could be very good, I think about a light maintenance process.
When I build a 4 hectare per 100m height station, just me in it it's weird ! (even a dozen of crew can't make good impress) Pop NPC are just intend to figurehead to fill station.
In some games population are present but in a easy mainteance way not as a city management, as Sins of solar empire : population grow itself until Max pop("upgrade planet button" to increase Max) determine income rate an spread culture. I have no other exemple right now but I'am sur ether eare other kind of games.

I think to food as a consumer product for population, not for players where will have to carry stock to eat each 10minutes, or crews.
That could be a synthetised food by Fertikeen ore, or even more simple, just place by restaurants (as beds) but that is what i would like, a think who is consumed to give me interest to go further in space (mine, fight or conquest). Go in space te feed me it's not at all what i thought ....
"synthetised food by Fertikeen ore" : That's sadly come back me to the feeling that everything can be crafted with different colored and named (same) ore/shards, with same recips to give same results. that's a part who make me very boring in starmade : the power wide range of cube/logic/ etc... and the poverty of industry process.