Planet Improvement Suggestions + Gas & Liquids & Specialized Salvager Beams + Block Integrity

[PhaelonMax]

Planet Improvements

I'd love to see two surfaces on each planet, one above and one below, each with their own gravity pulling inward. One of the problems I see with planets right now is that anyone can just fly on the underside and get to the valuable resources without having to break soil on the surface, not to mention how easy it is without being affected by gravity (which holding shift to stay still shouldn't completely negate the way it does. I also think planet's gravity should extend quite a bit further, and larger ships should have a harder time dealing with it, creating interesting scenarios where players will deploy smaller ships to investigate a planet by necessity, instead of just crashing in with their Titans.

Specialized Salvaging Beams

First I'd like to say that I think savlaging is much too easy to do, and I think this has to do with the amount of power it requires. That being said, I think another great addition to the mechanic of salvaging would be specialized beams for different types of materials. For example, you may have a cheap one for organic materials (plants, dirt, grass, etc...). The next tier up would be mineral for rocks and ores of course. This tier would also include a Liquid Salvager (see Liquids, next paragraph). I'd put the Gas Salvager here possibly, or with the following (see Gas, fourth paragraph): Finally, the most expensive and power consuming should be Ship Salvager Beam. This would be used for all "manufactured" materials, as well as items in space that may have been dropped out of a chest or as loot for killing an NPC. With this new diversity along with varied and higher power consumption requirements, I think salvaging would become much more balanced and specialized.

Liquids

Of course there must be some liquid out there in the universe on an eventual update, but possibly also hidden in the ground (literally in the dirt) of certain planets. This harvester would deal with that, and introduce a new item type to the game in the process. The liquid wouldn't even need to flow aside from maybe an animation at first, but having this as a crafting material or decroation will be nice when it comes.

Gas

Most planets have atmospheres of some degree, and this Salvager would be responsible for gathering it, as well as pockets of gas left behind in the trails of stars, or solar flares, or maybe even (introduce...) gas giants; huge planets made entirely of gas that might also serve to conceal a location of a pirate base, or your own faction home by dampening the sensors of passing ships. I would have this resource be abundant, but put a very high cost on the Gas Salvaging Beams, with possibly a lower than average power consumption rate and gathering speed per block.

Block Integrity

This would represent the wear and tear on a block because of usage, impacts, multiple repairs, or just plain old age. This statistic of a block would come in handy in numerous ways. Salvager beams, guns, and hull plating would eventually wear out after salvaging a kiloton of gas, firing 100k plasma bullets, or being repaired a dozen times. Furthermore, plants could have a shelf life, and lights could eventually go out.

I hope everyone digs these ideas, I feel like I've given good descriptions of each and good reasons as well. Looking forward to getting your feedback.

 

[LazerusKI]

i like the ability to just move \"under the planet\" to salvage it.
i think no one wants to fly in with a small miner and only like a 3x3 beam and mine something for hours.
The range of the beams is so low, i need to put my cannons like 10 blocks in front of the planet to salvage it. if i could salvage it from outer space without getting stuck on the surface - fine, but i dont think the game performance would like this

different salvage beams as an option would be interesting, but not as \"tiers\".
beams that are specialised into something (rock/ores, liquids, organics...) and mine them faster than the \"allround beam\". maybe even as an option in the weapons-tab

Liquids: Liquids in different colors would be nice to have, like the lava we have now.
Blue water, green and purple toxic stuff etc. i would like to have them in the future.

 

[PhaelonMax]

I see where your mind is in terms of what you\'re enjoying now about the ease of access you have to salvaged materials, and I see that your counter-desires in that realm reflect as such. But this is one of those times where you, and many other players like you, don\'t even realize how much more gratifying fun you\'d be having if salvaging were more difficult instead. As it is right now, endgame in Starmade alpha comes in less than 24 hours. Schema is going to HAVE to come up with ways to stretch this out, hopefully across MONTHS of gameplay, in spite of everything. What I\'ve suggested in terms of salvaging diversity and planet changes will do a great deal to add that more challenging and dynamic element to that part of the game. And that\'s what\'ll keep players like you playing for a year or more instead of just a few months once this game reaches final release. IMHO

 

[SWAT822]

I like the concept and it will balanced out everything and stuff. I also want the planrt to be double sided cause it looks stupid and anoying reorienting your ship to the star system.. and about mining gas and liquids I hope that it would be possible that they add a surface on the star to salvage some star particles and other rare material but ofcourse with a risk.

 

[LazerusKI]

@PhaelonMax
as i said, IF salvage beams would increase in length, so that i can salvage a planet from safe distance - fine.
my ship currently has arround 400 Salvage arrays made of 100 block each, and i need to \"kiss\" the planet or asteroid to mine them. Thats why i chose to mine from the bottom.

I dont want to have a mining ship that cant mine because it is too heavy to get away from planets gravity.
its not fun, it makes no sense, its stupid.

as long as salvage beams are limited the way they are - leave it like it is.

also i dont think you have realised what a \"sandbox game\" is (no offense, it just sounds like that)
gameplay for month? your sentence sounds more like \"progress for month\" and thats not the topic of a \"sandbox game\".
Ressources? for what? crafting? please...kill a few pirates, sell the L5s (even if the config is at 0.1), be rich, buy parts. done.
\"sandbox\" games are not meant to give people access to stuff after months, it is meant to give people stuff to have fun for months.
crafting is made for people who want to have fun, build a station, a factory.
building ships is made for fun, just build something big or beautifull.
Mining is for fun, build a ship, salvage things.
\"sandbox\" its not progress based like X³, Eve and whatelse, where you need eternitys to reach something.
Look at minecraft, what do you have there? you can build stuff. a few minutes and you have reached \"endgame\". Wood - Stone - Iron - Diamond. Reached within a few minutes. The same here. its just about \"creativity\".
Build a small ship, find Ice or neutral station, buy the rest. everything else is just to have fun.

Players who want to have RP, Factorys, Trade Routes, Progress and whatever - fine, why not?
You can do the same in minecraft, someone is a Miner, someone is a Soldier, build citys, play RP.
Or you can just play the game and build stuff.
People play minecraft for years even without progress over months. they just build new things over and over again.

But why should a player who just wants to have fun, build ships, battle pirates, salvage and collect things, be punished through months of progress farming?


but BTT:
As i said, it would be interesting to see more of these, IF the system around it would be tweaked without months of progress, and without punishing players (bottom mining without an equal exchange like higher range)

 

[mitchelltrt]

maybe make the current \"sandbox\" gamemode stay, and add survival and RP gamemodes. survival has no factions, RP does, but otherwise they are the same. they have more complex systems, pirates drop a ton less loot, the credit is worth less, etc.

 

[PhaelonMax]

You still don\'t get it. You\'re actually asking for less of a game and more of a cheat. Making ANYTHING easier in this game would be a bad idea. Period.

 

[PhaelonMax]

Oh star particles ... solar flares ... i like.

 

[aceface]

I like the idea of a game being more challenging. It\'s fun when you have to work to build the stuff you desire, not let your mind loose and do it all straight away. I find it hard to really explain, BUT I TOTALLY agree on the point where we should have months of gameplay. Randomly generated missions, stories would be so awesome. This is a bit too over the top, but massively multiplayer servers with big faction wars would be EPIC, unlike the maybe 10-20 on a server where you stumble into someone ever hour once you are out of spawn.

 

[LazerusKI]

nope, its just a fact that with \"double sided gravity\" the whole concept of big miners would be destroyed.
you would get stuck on the planet, because your ship will be propably too heavy to get out of the gravity, and you cant use them because currently you need to get very very close.
do you really want to fly arround with a small fighter with 5 salvage beams to salvage ressources from a planet, because you are unable to use your big ship?
the ship where you spend tons of parts in to have fun with?
besides the problem of big ships, what would be if you dig through the planet and jump in? float between the layers, unable to get out? sounds like fun -.-

i have made the minecraft example. do you want to farm a month to get your first diamond?
do you want to farm a month to build your first real house, and not a dirt-shelter?

actually i like complex things, thats why i have played minecraft with 170+ tech mods, build and manage a fully automatic factory driven by nuclear energy, monitored by heat sensors, refilling uranium rods after a specific time, crafting new uranium rods etc. but your idea with twin sided planets would bring more problems than profits, it would ruin the fun if there would be no tweak in the system.
i could imagine groundbased vehicles that can be build with the same parts, just with tracks to move on the planet and mine there, instead of your huge ship in the orbit. just something as a trade-off.
i dont want to mine a whole planet in no-time (actually i want, but the game wont let me)
it would be fun if you could manage factorys and trading routes to get more money, produce things, build up your ship, instead of randomly finding everything for free. but it just dont fit in the sandbox theme, where i want to build things to make them look nice.

mitchelltrt said it right, different gamemodes. not everyone likes progress over months, not everyone wants to play completely RP. Fun is different for everyone. A friend of me is building the Stargate Daedalus, i dont think he would have he motivation to do that if he would need to farm for ages to get all the parts.

 

[PhaelonMax]

Well buddy if you want to just have everything you want right away, then make your ow little server and admin yourself everything.

 

[LazerusKI]

its allready done
set the Loot-Configs to 0.1 so that you cant get billions of credits by killing one pirate.
as i said, if you want to play for progress/rp - do it
if you want to play for building - do it
but dont force someone to do it.

it is like GregTech, some players like the hard recipes with hundreds of steps, or recipes with harder materials where you need hours to reach a decent amount (like chrome, tungstensteel and more), some hate him for what he has done. players are different

 

[Dendrake]

If you don\'t make a game difficult then there is no point in playing, I understand your theory of some players are different but what he is suggesting would be amazing. I myself have NEVER had to \"kiss\" a planet to mine it so I have no idea where you are coming with that. Honestly this games needs to have more things added to it, if you want to make it easier use commands, if you want to make it a challenge, don\'t. If schema added the things here then you can still use your commands to make it super easy.

On a side note, I have never once got diamond on a new game within the first half hour, let alone first couple minutes. It\'s not anything to do with noobiness either, played Minecraft since alpha so I have been at it for awhile

 

[LazerusKI]

as i said, i like most of the ideas.
liquids? gas? specialized beams? cool.

doubleside planets? in theory...also cool.
but in fact...too many problems.

and block integrity could be there for people who like the \"hardmode\"

I dont know your ship, my ship is equipped with a 21x21 checkerboard of Salvage beams, 100 length, 221 beams total i think. To reach through the planet so that i can mine everything, even the hills, i need to get close to like 10 blocks.

minecraft: it takes only a few minutes to craft your first stone pick. then a few minutes more to smelt some iron.
then just dig down to level 12 (or whatever it was) and find your diamonds.
if you dont build a house first, you can reach your first diamond in under 20 minutes.
im not a fan of this \"rush\", but i was admin on our clan server, so i know how fast players can be.

 

[PhaelonMax]

There are those players who want to experience the world that the developer has created, share the vision of the world they are placed in, and understand what it means to survive there on a practical level, the way that the developer ultimately intends. To BE the character, to WATCH the cutscenes, to PAY ATTENTION to the dialogue, and appreciate every struggle and challenge set before them with awe and respect. Players who enjoy the playthrough ... there\'s players like that, and then, Lazeruski, there\'s you. The leet min/maxer that cares about nothing but exploiting the endgame.

There are players who think about balance, longevity and challenge in a game. Players who consider the need for diversity, for levels of difficutly to strive through. Players who understand that real gratification comes not from the final OP state of their character, but the time and trials that it took to get there. Then there\'s Lazeruski, the player who finds the fastest way to do the seemingly most profitable thing, and cares more about that than anything, even though there\'s no point because he\'s already grinded his way to a state where he has nothing to look forward to but more of the same. But does he care? No, he still wants doing essentially NOTHING to be easier.

Other people reading this post, please don\'t be a Lazeruski. And if you are, then by god\'s name, PLEASE stay far far away from TESOnline :P

 

[LazerusKI]

*sigh* i give up trying to explain that i like endgame stuff, if it works, and i have the choice of having it, and not being forced into it.
please, for the sake of god/satan, read my posts carefully, i have said it multiple times that i would like progress, if im not forced into it. Thats the sense of playing a sandbox game, do what you want, and not follow a specific path.
i like it if there is something that i can reach, better things, weapons, ship parts.
currently i can buy everything, so i have no need for ressources or crafting, but what would be if i could craft customized stuff, like your mentioned \"specialized beams\"? it would be interesting, it would be fun to set up a station, a factory to produce them.

i made a \"Missile\" topic a while ago, it was about a similar thing, more specialised, customized stuff.
Buy the \"basic\" missile, but to get a \"specialized/customized Missile\" you need to create it your own. exactly this would fit for your Salvage Beam idea. One basic beam that can salvage everything the same, and then your specialised who is better in some categorys. I have never said that i dont like the idea of \"reach something\", i just dont like the \"tier\" stuff where I have to go through a specific order.


im not a fan of this \"rush\", but i was admin on our clan server, so i know how fast players can be.



there is also no fun for me playing in \"creative\" all the time. in MC i have worked months to build my Base (as i said, 170+ Tech Mods), i programmed defense systems (learned Lua and Forth for it), set up factorys, automated mineshafts etc etc.
In creative...i could have reached it in a few days, but that would be boring.
Most of the players on our old MC server used the \"Solar Panels\" because they provided a lot of power without maintain costs. Bored me. Started to build Water Generators (like huge batteries) and then i calculated my Nuclear Reactor (had only one Meltdown *cough* new system was...new). I have even installed more complex reactors because it was fun to reach and manage them.
I have stopped because the 1.6 Mods are not released yet. But as soon as they are finished, i will start again. And im so exited about it...Nuclear Waste, finally a liquid to fill my dry riverbed with ^-^


All i said was about the gravity problem, and the \"forcing players into a playstyle\"
As i said, if i have no reason to build a bigger ship (gravity problem) why should i work for it?
And to be honest...the platform is java...and java is...limited, thats why i said \"if i could salvage it from outer space without getting stuck on the surface - fine, but i dont think the game performance would like this\"
And the game has allready problems with my big 880 beams ship, or a 250 Swarm Rocket Launcher...so i dont know if it would like \"big ship longrange mining\"

TES Online: Im not even sure if i want to play it
TES is fun (Hail Sithis!) but as far as i have seen you are \"forced\" into specific classes in TESO.
I loved the way to create the character i want to be. But there...it looks like im forced into a specific role.
It would ruin the TES feeling for me
It was the same with Dungeons and Dragons and the new \"Neverwinter\".
Played in the D&D Universe, but with the \"new rule set\"...no own choice in creating your class, forced into a specific role, weapon, skills...thats no D&D for me...always liked to play the \"sneaky trapper\" or \"assassin\" but there i was forced into the role of a backstabber. Disarming Traps was for the Fighter, finding secret rooms was for the Fighter...i could not even sneak past the enemy, cloak was a \"combat mechanic\"

But MMOs are different to Sandbox Games. Most MMOs have a specific Storyline (sometimes not even that), Content in MMOs is limited, Sandbox Games are not. Even if i have reached \"the best parts\", creativity is endless. If i have the best stuff in an MMO, everything maxed...then i need to wait for more, if i have nothing else to do.

also: dont insult me.
if you dont want to read about someone who does not share your opinion: dont post online.
so, can we stop this now and talk about the real topic? or should we change the topic to a pure flamewar?

 

[PhaelonMax]

I\'ve long forgotten the specifics of our differences Laz, it\'s too bad we can\'t just delete all of our comments. I think we have somewhat of a similar interest when it comes to diversification here, but we diverge when it comes to how we go about accessing those new options. You said you\'re into the endgame, and that is evident in everything else you\'ve said. I\'m more focused on the process of getting there. Every online game and MMO lately has just been all about the endgame. Even the best of the best who have attempted to really enrich the story and leveling process of their titles have still found themselves having to cater to players who have already done everything and want more, or players who are tired of trying to get to the end and just want to BE there. I feel like my suggestions here are just ways that the game could slow down the process of reaching the \"endgame\", but while adding to the game instead of just stifiling progress and nerfing numbers. I think that\'s something we can both agree on.