New Thruster

    Joined
    Jul 18, 2015
    Messages
    34
    Reaction score
    2
    For the bigger ships you need a lot of thruster which needs a lot of power and many times it can take 1/4 to 1/3 for your power just to get max thrust slowly. Why not make a second thruster that use less power and more thrust that could be either only craftable or 3 or more times as expensive? It can also be based on the mass of a ship. Say the thrust of it increases by an amount based on mass. There would be a limit to the bonus, but it would be around two or three times more thrust per thruster block at maximum. With the mass bouns it would make it only useful for bigger ships. It can have less thrust than the normal thruster until it is put on a ship of a certain mass, then a bonus that increases thrust can start and it eventually makes it have more thrust than the original thruster.
     

    Lecic

    Convicted Lancake Abuser
    Joined
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages
    5,115
    Reaction score
    1,229
    • Thinking Positive Gold
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 11
    Have you considered that this was intended?
     

    MeRobo

    Scrub
    Joined
    Apr 1, 2015
    Messages
    422
    Reaction score
    650
    • Purchased!
    • Competition Winner - Small Fleets
    • Legacy Citizen 4
    I think a block like this would make the Fighters-Need-More-Love-Crowd very angry...
     

    jayman38

    Precentor-Primus, pro-tempore
    Joined
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages
    2,518
    Reaction score
    787
    • Purchased!
    • Thinking Positive
    • Legacy Citizen 4
    I'm hoping acceleration will be adjusted in the future to allow middle-sized ships (generally, the kind that are recreations of pre-existing properties) to accelerate and turn faster. Basically, I'm hoping the turning speed slow-down curve will be adjusted up. There are lots of Sci-fi recreations that turn much slower than the original ship they are based on. Plus, at the scale one must build to create a decent ship, the current acceleration and turning rates slow down too fast as block count (mass?) increases. Turning rate needs more love than acceleration. Ships with giant engines will naturally have navigation thrusters farther out from the center of mass.
     
    Joined
    Jun 24, 2015
    Messages
    148
    Reaction score
    33
    Doing this kind of thing would just make larger ships even more OP over small fighters. Thats one of the few advantages small ships have. I would say directional thrusters are far more important.
     
    Joined
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages
    351
    Reaction score
    347
    • Community Content - Silver 1
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 4
    So what we need is regular balancing tournaments between super-dreadnaughts and fighter squadrons. If either side wins 3/3 battles, the winning side gets nerfed.
     
    Joined
    Jul 18, 2015
    Messages
    34
    Reaction score
    2
    That's not a bad idea, just have to find out how to nerf them after they win. I'd say start with the larger ships and their shielding.
     
    Joined
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages
    78
    Reaction score
    10
    definitely directional thrusters... and split the current engine into three "sizes" (strengths)
    in space engineers, small thrusters are used typically for manuevering providing little thrust, but also a small footprint.
    by having "medium" (3x2?) and "large" (6x4?) thrusters...
    we can customise our ships. like small thrusters excel at manuevering, but are weak at gaining speed.
    whereas large, are terrible manuevering, but unmatched at propulsion...
    medium of course, is balanced.

    with this design, we get finer control, AND the little fighter's don't miss out unless they are simply too small.
     
    Joined
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages
    254
    Reaction score
    43
    • Purchased!
    • Legacy Citizen 3
    Developers have plans for making it possible to adjust thrust directional ratios, thus allowing you to sacrifice some aspects/directions to make others stronger. It is of course would not change the total thrust strength, but it is a much as you'll need.

    Nevertheless, this behavior is intended. Large ships are supposed to be slower. They are not intended for cruising around, they are meant for straight and merciless warfare. As I've been saying on another similar topic, no matter what size of a ship you're talking about, the intended average ratio of thrusters is 5.0% of block count, whether you agree or not. Anything above that is chassis customization, which changes ship's role at expense of other baseline ratios, the same way RPG games define character classes by stats they're revolving around.

    Since current game economy is quite raw, adding another module will achieve nothing except breaking the balance and making standard thrusters irrelevant. Right now there's no material rare enough to allow such an item to being produced. Besides, the suggested specifications doesn't make much sense theoretically.
     

    Ithirahad

    Arana'Aethi
    Joined
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages
    4,150
    Reaction score
    1,330
    • Purchased!
    • Top Forum Contributor
    • Legacy Citizen 8
    If these fancy mega-thrusters only applied in the forward acceleration direction, then this would actually be a great idea. (Hell, with proper balancing it might mostly nullify the need for the thrust revamp in the first place.)
     

    Keptick

    Building masochist
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages
    4,062
    Reaction score
    1,841
    • Councillor 2 Gold
    • Railman Gold
    • Thinking Positive Gold
    If these fancy mega-thrusters only applied in the forward acceleration direction, then this would actually be a great idea. (Hell, with proper balancing it might mostly nullify the need for the thrust revamp in the first place.)
    I actually like that idea
     

    Ithirahad

    Arana'Aethi
    Joined
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages
    4,150
    Reaction score
    1,330
    • Purchased!
    • Top Forum Contributor
    • Legacy Citizen 8
    Yeah, I figured it would be simpler than some weird thrust distribution system, and the Gods know we could do with some simplicity in this game right about now.
     
    Joined
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages
    78
    Reaction score
    10
    well the "maneuvering" thrusters act directional, as in they pretend to render in a variety of directions regardless of block placement...
    which is what makes them great for "maneuvering"...
    the balanced would be not as efficient at directional charges, but also would have some strong "forward" push...
    and the "big" thruster would only push one way. but do so with heavy thrust.

    basically, the most efficient design would be to have a few "large" thrusters on every surface, with a ton of "small" thrusters around them...
    the "balanced" is more so for people with "limitations" like fighters.
    the best bit about this, is that it allows a player to customise. if they think their ship will doing a lot of "running" or chasing... then having large amounts of "big" thrusters
    propelling them "forwards" would be the only option... which also means they need either good turning or good backwards thrust to stop themselves...
    while a ship may decide that being able to run RINGS around vessels is more important, and focus on the ability to turn rapidly.

    the most important point to mention here, is that adding a "large thruster" is NOT meant to turn your ship from "slug" to rocket... the different thrusters are to allow different attributes.
    two IDENTICAL looking ships may be very different by the choice of thruster. much like how you can focus your ship's shielding towards regen or capacity simply by using the appropriate block. the difference being, that i'm suggesting that if a "small thruster" outputs thrust in ALL six directions, while a "big" only outputs on the ONE direction.
    a balanced thruster would probably output thrust in ALL six directions, but ONLY one at a time. meaning that it can't be used for "diagonals"

    to really simplify it...
    directional thrusters = "small" thruster (current starmade)
    directed thruster = "balanced" 2X3 block thruster
    Propulsion thruster = "big" 3X6 block thruster..

    although a ship *COULD* just use the "propulsion" thruster... it would require a thruster in EVERY surface facing "out", and it'd be difficult to maneuver as the thrust is pushing solid in one direction.
    whereas a ship using just the "directional thruster" would effectively be able to
    perform incredibly complex turns, since the ship can create minute thrust along "1000's" of points along the hull, it can "push" at one end, and "pull" at another.
    (the game of course, would not actually "process this" per say, it'd just cheat and claim a maneuvering bonus for turn rate on a direction of rotation)
    but those engines really don't do much for actual thrust, meaning that a ship would still be extremely slow to "accelerate" and hence, have a poor top speed.

    going for the "balanced" engine is the best case, it basically behaves like a small version of a propulsion thruster, crossed with a directional thruster.
    you get none of the "disadvantages" but none of the advantages either...

    really, you'd have to think of a "directional thruster" as a six sided engine block, able to emit the same amount of thrust from any one, or all six sides at once...
    without "affecting" it's propulsion...

    the "directed thruster" is the same concept as a VTOL aircraft engine, all it's thrust is emitted out ONLY one side at a time. meaning any one of the six sides.
    but at a much higher power then the directional thrusters...

    the other one... is just a traditional main engine... tons of high velocity in what
    ever direction it's facing.

    (for those complaining of "realism"... how do you know it does not have surface micro channels to allow thrust to reach the "surface"...)
     

    Ithirahad

    Arana'Aethi
    Joined
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages
    4,150
    Reaction score
    1,330
    • Purchased!
    • Top Forum Contributor
    • Legacy Citizen 8
    well the "maneuvering" thrusters act directional, as in they pretend to render in a variety of directions regardless of block placement...
    which is what makes them great for "maneuvering"...
    the balanced would be not as efficient at directional charges, but also would have some strong "forward" push...
    and the "big" thruster would only push one way. but do so with heavy thrust.

    basically, the most efficient design would be to have a few "large" thrusters on every surface, with a ton of "small" thrusters around them...
    the "balanced" is more so for people with "limitations" like fighters.
    the best bit about this, is that it allows a player to customise. if they think their ship will doing a lot of "running" or chasing... then having large amounts of "big" thrusters
    propelling them "forwards" would be the only option... which also means they need either good turning or good backwards thrust to stop themselves...
    while a ship may decide that being able to run RINGS around vessels is more important, and focus on the ability to turn rapidly.

    the most important point to mention here, is that adding a "large thruster" is NOT meant to turn your ship from "slug" to rocket... the different thrusters are to allow different attributes.
    two IDENTICAL looking ships may be very different by the choice of thruster. much like how you can focus your ship's shielding towards regen or capacity simply by using the appropriate block. the difference being, that i'm suggesting that if a "small thruster" outputs thrust in ALL six directions, while a "big" only outputs on the ONE direction.
    a balanced thruster would probably output thrust in ALL six directions, but ONLY one at a time. meaning that it can't be used for "diagonals"

    to really simplify it...
    directional thrusters = "small" thruster (current starmade)
    directed thruster = "balanced" 2X3 block thruster
    Propulsion thruster = "big" 3X6 block thruster..

    although a ship *COULD* just use the "propulsion" thruster... it would require a thruster in EVERY surface facing "out", and it'd be difficult to maneuver as the thrust is pushing solid in one direction.
    whereas a ship using just the "directional thruster" would effectively be able to
    perform incredibly complex turns, since the ship can create minute thrust along "1000's" of points along the hull, it can "push" at one end, and "pull" at another.
    (the game of course, would not actually "process this" per say, it'd just cheat and claim a maneuvering bonus for turn rate on a direction of rotation)
    but those engines really don't do much for actual thrust, meaning that a ship would still be extremely slow to "accelerate" and hence, have a poor top speed.

    going for the "balanced" engine is the best case, it basically behaves like a small version of a propulsion thruster, crossed with a directional thruster.
    you get none of the "disadvantages" but none of the advantages either...

    really, you'd have to think of a "directional thruster" as a six sided engine block, able to emit the same amount of thrust from any one, or all six sides at once...
    without "affecting" it's propulsion...

    the "directed thruster" is the same concept as a VTOL aircraft engine, all it's thrust is emitted out ONLY one side at a time. meaning any one of the six sides.
    but at a much higher power then the directional thrusters...

    the other one... is just a traditional main engine... tons of high velocity in what
    ever direction it's facing.

    (for those complaining of "realism"... how do you know it does not have surface micro channels to allow thrust to reach the "surface"...)
    That was... really big and badly organized... but from what I gathered you're suggesting three types of thrusters... The current one (Maneuvering Thrusters) unidirectional orientable thrusters for a buff in a single turning/movement direction (Directed thruster) and a big, heavy unidirectional thruster? Well, for one thing, we're probably not getting systems blocks larger than one block, I don't really see the point in that. Second, this is a lot of types of thruster; if we're going to end up with more than one new type we might as well just go with Calbiri/Schine's current plans for a thruster revamp that only uses one type of thruster but uses a menu to assign different amount of a ship's total thrust to different directions and turn axes.
     
    Last edited: