Dynamic shop prices

[Arcaner]

It would be nice if the price of an item in a shop changed dynamically with the amount of the item left, kind of like-

newPrice = startingPrice * ( changeFactor ^ (standardStock - currentStock) )

-newPrice = price that is displayed in the shop menu and which is the price at which a single block of that item can be bought/sold for at that instant.
-startingPrice = A fixed (fixed separately for each item, that is) price which is generated at the start of the universe. This would vary from region to region. This is ALSO displayed in the shop menu interface as the "standard price" of that item.
-currentStock = the amount of that specific item available in the shop.
-standardStock = a universal standard number which is different for every item. Its the amount of a specific item at which the price of the item is equal to the startingPrice.
-changeFactor is a number slightly greater than 1.

This would mean that the price of an item would start increasing as its stock decreases, and the price would start dropping as the item stocks increase to an excess.

Q)Isn't startingPrice basically the prices that current release-build shops show?
Well, yes it is.

Q)How will bulk buying and selling work?
Bulk buying will have the same price as buying those many of that item one at a time, with the "price" (i.e, newPrice) being different per single of that item.

Q)Will selling price always be equal to buying price (newPrice) of all items?
Yes. Selling price will increase/decrease along with buying price.

What this will do:
1) Totally buying out an item will become very hard.
2)Will instigate exploration because players will search for shops with better prices.
3)Will make extreme bulk selling less profitable. (As it should be.)
4)Will remove perpetual trading, where a player can earn a fortune simply by completely buying out the items which have a slightly lower price at shop A and selling them to shop B, and do the same thing for every single item. (*here, I refer to a setting in the current game which allows small variations in the price of items across shops.)
5)Will make the shop systems a little more interesting and dynamic.

Thoughts?

 

[somot2]

Maybe make it so that shops' distance from each other affect the price difference between them? For example, let's assume there's a shop in sector 0,0,0 where eg. Chabaz costs 37 credits. Then there's another shop, let's say, 2 systems away, where the same Chabaz costs eg. 50 credits. It would make it possible to trade between shops and also make exploration more profitable, because one will be able to sell mined stuff at higher prices.

 

[Edymnion]

Yeah, we have a little bit of this in there now, but its off by default.

Shops have ranges for items, so if its turned on you could buy low sell high and just play trader between shops.

 

[Lone_Puppy]

Supply and demand.
Based on the average price of a particular product, I think a calculation like this would be useful.
Example;

• If the shop is heavily stocked with the item, prices could go down based on some percentage.
• Low stock could have a higher price based on a percentage.
• Or base the price hikes on popular demand. Like the shop raises the price on popular items sold as the stock lowers.

 

[lokilog]

Maybe make it so that shops' distance from each other affect the price difference between them? For example, let's assume there's a shop in sector 0,0,0 where eg. Chabaz costs 37 credits. Then there's another shop, let's say, 2 systems away, where the same Chabaz costs eg. 50 credits. It would make it possible to trade between shops and also make exploration more profitable, because one will be able to sell mined stuff at higher prices.

This kind of shop model could be expanded to include local variability. Each shop would scan to see how far away the nearest natural occurrence of a given resource is, then calculate price based on that distance. That way, it would expensive to buy, say, Parseen and Sapsun in a system without Parseen/Sapsun asteroids.

 

[Arcaner]

1) It will become very hard for whom? Players with a lot of credits, or players with the starting 50k credits?
2) Players already explore when a stocked item becomes depleted... they must if they aren't an admin.
3) What is the conflict with mass sale/purchase?
4) This point seems flawed; if a player buys out shop-A of reactors at a universal rate of 100 each, and sells them to shop-B for 100 each, the player has successfully made 0 credits and killed some time. Your proposal would allow them to buy from a fully stocked npc shop in the middle of nowhere, and sell to a more local, empty npc shop for a profit.

In general, it seems creating a new dynamic-system for npc trade is aimed at reducing the wealth of players, and less about making the current system more sound/sensible. The pro's/con's list to having credits, like 100 mill, is sorta limited as is. What does credit wealth matter in StarMade to warrant modification to the existing system?

Fays
I rewrote the response, maybe it wasn't clear.

1) It will become very hard for whom? Players with a lot of credits, or players with the starting 50k credits?

"Well..." meant: There aren't many ways in which we can stop stronger, richer players from having a constant advantage over newer players in every aspect of the game. This suggestion is not aimed at solving that 'problem', if it even is one.

2) Players already explore when a stocked item becomes depleted... they must if they aren't an admin.

My response: "This would be more like a softer nudge to move on..."
Notice I didn't use the word spawn point. I used the words "softer nudge to move on" to compare it with the "harder, more definitive nudge to move on when an item is out of stock". A softer nudge means players can decide at what point they want to move on and explore a potentially dangerous universe for better prices. This brings in more choices, and (from my point of view), that is always a good thing.

3) What is the conflict with mass sale/purchase?

My suggestion makes it harder to mass sell/mass but products. This is intentional. While item prices should of course be determined by production costs, another very important factor to take into account should be the stocks.
Let us take the case of a player who owns a large factory. The player produces lots of reactor power blocks and sells them to a nearby shop for profit. With the current system, the 'selling' items to a shop is more like a one way bargain. The shop has a fixed price and has to provide credits for anything and everything that is sold.

A better, more realistic scenario would be that the shop starts offering lower and lower prices as it has over excessive stocks of reactor power blocks after a while. The player then has to find another shop 'client' which will accept the reactor power blocks at a better rate.

Taking a real life example, imagine what would happen if a clothes factory could sell everything it produces to a general store nearby.

4) This point seems flawed; if a player buys out shop-A of reactors at a universal rate of 100 each, and sells them to shop-B for 100 each, the player has successfully made 0 credits and killed some time.

I am sorry- In the original post, I was referring to a setting in the game which would allow shops to have slight variations in prices. So Shop A could have (say) thrust blocks at 1300 credits each and Shop B could have them at 1500 credits each. This would allow players to simply buy out thruster blocks at Shop A and sell them to B for a good profit.

Your proposal would allow them to buy from a fully stocked npc shop in the middle of nowhere, and sell to a more local, empty npc shop for a profit.

Well, yes, that is the whole point. Do keep in mind four things:
1-After a certain (not so long) while, an equilibrium will get established. The fully stocked npc shop in the middle of nowhere would increase its price gradually as stocks decreased and the local more empty shop would decrease the price it buys stuff for. At some point, they will both have the same price for that particular item(s) and it would no longer be possible to do that. The player would have to find another shop. Compare this with the (in game, but default off) system that Schine is planning of which I have talked about above.
2-The journey such a player will take is full of dangers (because the npc shop in the middle of nowhere would be, well, in the middle of nowhere) and this along with the fact that the player has spent time and effort in doing this should be taken into account when judging the (apparent) unfairness of the profit achieved.
3-This act of the player would greatly benefit other players who use the more local empty shop. The player would be acting as a 'trader' and a 'restocker' at the same time. Would this not enhance the role of the 'trader' as Schine have planned? If not, could another suggestion be made?
4-A real world example: Oil prices are cheaper in the middle east, and companies buy, transport and finally sell oil in other countries for higher prices.

In general, it seems creating a new dynamic-system for npc trade is aimed at reducing the wealth of players, and less about making the current system more sound/sensible. The pro's/con's list to having credits, like 100 mill, is sorta limited as is. What does credit wealth matter in StarMade to warrant modification to the existing system?

Reducing the wealth? On an average, for every shop with higher prices, there will be a shop with lower prices. This is not a valid point.

Lastly, there is no real economy in-game, and truly speaking, the current one feels more like placeholder for something much better (planned or unplanned, that is a separate matter) and it is because of this that credit wealth seems weird as of now. This is just a suggestion with positives and negatives as well, and no offence, but the points you brought out largely are not what I'd call negatives.

 

[/)^3^(\]

People like me used to exploit the dynamic price system by shooting at shops and getting the trading guild to come and fight you, while re-stocking the shop. This gave the shop the max amount of items pretty quick and always gave you cheap prices. After that, you could sell back some blocks to earn credits when the price got high.

Something needs to fix the economy before this can really be a thing.

 

[Arcaner]

Did some digging and found some really old threads that suggested something similar-

https://starmadedock.net/threads/a-simple-economy-change-to-promote-trading.1135/

https://starmadedock.net/threads/attempt-at-reworking-the-economy.973/