The Current State of Weapons

[marcus87]

I'd have an idea for a new effect there, if you don't mind @Crimson-Artist :

Vektor-effect:

• slaved:
  • causes projectiles to only deal a part of their damage to their target, and then bounce of off it.
    • number of bounces should depend on the effect's efficiency and configs.
  • causes beams to also only deal a part of their damage and be reflected by their target.
    • the maximum number of reflections should depend on the effect's efficiency and again, configs
  • adds a direction to pulses. the effect's efficiency determines how big the angle of affection will be
    • might come with a range/RoF increase?
• passive:
  • increases turn rate?
  • reduces damage of bounced/reflected projectiles/beams?
  • reduces the amount of bounces/reflections of projectiles/beams will have after hitting?

Interesting, but I think in most situations that would mean most of your damage is wasted. But you could make it an electric weapon. So the art jumps from ship to ship.

 

[Keptick]

I don't mean to break your heart but there are dozens of fully automatic/burst pistols, including the infamous Glock 18 with it's 1200 RPM fire rate. xP

There are dozens of rapid fire pulse laser pistols irl? Care to link me an image please

 

[Megacrafter127]

Interesting, but I think in most situations that would mean most of your damage is wasted.

That is supposed to be the necessary drawback for balancing. Besides, homing missiles should still be locked on the same target after the bump and bounce around on the enemy ship. They'd also wreck a ship very easily if one manages to fire into the interior.

 

[Criss]

I'd have an idea for a new effect there, if you don't mind @Crimson-Artist :

Vektor-effect:

• slaved:
  • causes projectiles to only deal a part of their damage to their target, and then bounce of off it.
    • number of bounces should depend on the effect's efficiency and configs.
  • causes beams to also only deal a part of their damage and be reflected by their target.
    • the maximum number of reflections should depend on the effect's efficiency and again, configs
  • adds a direction to pulses. the effect's efficiency determines how big the angle of affection will be
    • might come with a range/RoF increase?
• passive:
  • increases turn rate?
  • reduces damage of bounced/reflected projectiles/beams?
  • reduces the amount of bounces/reflections of projectiles/beams will have after hitting?

I feel like that would only be heavily used by people using pulse weapons. It would have to be more useful across the board for that to work.

Sorry, I'm not following you. Why would shots need to do the same amount of damage in half the time?

With my faster-fire-rate suggestion, a single-block cannon with a dps of 5/s firing at 1s intervals would have a damage output per shot of 5, instead of a damage output of 15 every 3s. (Currently, cannon weapons without a slave fire once every 3 seconds.)

Are you worried about single-block cannons with insignificant damage on each shot? Rapid-fire cannon-slaves would have a similar problem of reduced damage per shot, but typically players use enough blocks so that the damage per shot is significant.

To illustrate: a cannon-cannon slaved system with 1 weapon block for each computer will only have 1 damage per shot. 5dps master + 5dps slave = 10 dps. Divide 10 dps by 10 shots per second, and you have a nice solid 1 damage per shot, for every tenth of a second.)

Uh. I am pretty positive that slave systems add no dps to their master systems at all.
The damage output has to be the same for rapid fire and un-slaved systems. 5 shots with 1 damage each every second OR 1 shot every 5 seconds with 5 dmg. Either way the number in the end of those 5 seconds is the same. If you want to decrease reload time and also lower then damage of a single system cannon so that the dps is the same before and after this (hypothetical) "update" then all that is changing is the visuals. Personally I do not mind waiting a few seconds to shoot powerful shots. I want my big ships to have powerful cannons, not massive turrets that shoot rapidly. It's more effective against shields however because there is no individual shield to hit that takes all the damage. Its a shared value on the ship, no matter where it is hit.

 

[jzimmerman4]

Here is my weapon suggestion for the damage pulse: http://starmadedock.net/threads/re-imagining-the-damage-pulse.2726/

 

[Crimson-Artist]

I thought AI accuracy was server configurable, something turrets shared with pirates.

it is, but recently the AI was fixed to respond to the config. This was to "fix" the AI's insane accuracy of being able to hit the core of a ship from the weapon's max range.

we went from having the AI able to kill a ship in mere seconds at any range to now the AI unable to hit anything thats not 1m from its face.

 

[NeonSturm]

actually adding an astronaut energy meter would be the best compromise

you can preserve the current system of infinite ammo while connecting players with the ship building aspect. Guns could have energy demands that correspond with how they fire.

• Pistols: Powerful slow-firing short range semi-auto weapon=Average drain; short bursts will allow your energy meter to refill but consistent fire will eventually cause an outage, preventing you from attack and/or acting entirely
• Assault rifle: Weak Rapid-fire medium range weapon=low drain;short bursts will allow your energy meter to refill but consistent fire will eventually cause an outage, preventing you from attack and/or acting entirely
• Shotguns: Medium-High powered Slow firing spread weapon=medium drain; every shot could use up to half of your energy meter
• Sniper Rifle: Powerful Slow firing long range weapon=High drain; single shots can cause near outages
• Rocket Launcher: Powerful Slow Firing medium to long range explosive weapon= High drain; single shots can cause near outages

Also giving players an energy meter could open up possibilities for more gadgets and tools to be used *Cough jet packs cough*[DOUBLEPOST=1411579306,1411578883][/DOUBLEPOST]forgot to add that if we had regenerating shields it could add an interesting prospect to combat as energy is needed for shields to regenerate and your guns need energy to fire. it would add a fight-or-flight prospect to fighting.

hopefully that doesn't sound too Halo-like

Does not really work as power capacity and number of weapon slots might be adjustable in a player's armour (if the game will have miniblocks there)

Though a rocket launcher or sniper riffle with significant damage may require more space, thus less hull and defensive systems...

I'd have an idea for a new effect there, if you don't mind @Crimson-Artist :

Vektor-effect:

• slaved:
  • causes projectiles to only deal a part of their damage to their target, and then bounce of off it.
    • number of bounces should depend on the effect's efficiency and configs.
  • causes beams to also only deal a part of their damage and be reflected by their target.
    • the maximum number of reflections should depend on the effect's efficiency and again, configs
  • adds a direction to pulses. the effect's efficiency determines how big the angle of affection will be
    • might come with a range/RoF increase?
• passive:
  • increases turn rate?
  • reduces damage of bounced/reflected projectiles/beams?
  • reduces the amount of bounces/reflections of projectiles/beams will have after hitting?

Really like it.



Weapons do not have to be all usefull on all servers. Sometimes some combination is only choosen for RP reasons while another is excluded for the same reasons.

what the game can support with minimal effort and clutter shall exist.

 

[Keptick]

I feel like that would only be heavily used by people using pulse weapons. It would have to be more useful across the board for that to work.




Uh. I am pretty positive that slave systems add no dps to their master systems at all.
The damage output has to be the same for rapid fire and un-slaved systems. 5 shots with 1 damage each every second OR 1 shot every 5 seconds with 5 dmg. Either way the number in the end of those 5 seconds is the same. If you want to decrease reload time and also lower then damage of a single system cannon so that the dps is the same before and after this (hypothetical) "update" then all that is changing is the visuals. Personally I do not mind waiting a few seconds to shoot powerful shots. I want my big ships to have powerful cannons, not massive turrets that shoot rapidly. It's more effective against shields however because there is no individual shield to hit that takes all the damage. Its a shared value on the ship, no matter where it is hit.

Having a single master array of say 8 blocks profuces the exact same DPS as a "4 block master with 4 blocks slave" (8 blocks total). The damage per shot will differ, sure, but the DPS (damage per second) will stay the exact same.

The only exception to this rule is when using beam as a slave, in which case it doesn't add any damage.

I still like his suggestion, though. If you want your turrets to have more oomph per shot then you can always use a damage pulse as slave.[DOUBLEPOST=1411594663,1411594447][/DOUBLEPOST]

it is, but recently the AI was fixed to respond to the config. This was to "fix" the AI's insane accuracy of being able to hit the core of a ship from the weapon's max range.

we went from having the AI able to kill a ship in mere seconds at any range to now the AI unable to hit anything thats not 1m from its face.

Even 1m is a bit optimistic :P

 

[Criss]

Having a single master array of say 8 blocks profuces the exact same DPS as a "4 block master with 4 blocks slave" (8 blocks total). The damage per shot will differ, sure, but the DPS (damage per second) will stay the exact same.

The only exception to this rule is when using beam as a slave, in which case it doesn't add any damage.

I still like his suggestion, though. If you want your turrets to have more oomph per shot then you can always use a damage pulse as slave.[DOUBLEPOST=1411594663,1411594447][/DOUBLEPOST]
Even 1m is a bit optimistic :p

I will be completely honest, I do not believe that. I was told otherwise since the day the system was added.

 

[Crimson-Artist]

alright great responses!

now how do you guys feel about the Push pulse?

Personally i was starting to like it since it had a natural EMP outage effect. But recently that ability was taken away from it making it completely useless now.

I would really like to not only see that this get put back in but expanded

 

[Lecic]

I think both pulse effects are still extremely underwhelming. They need to have their range massively increased.

 

[jzimmerman4]

Points to the link I posted a few responses back. I think that's the answer. Increases range, will look legit, be effective in combat, unique, etc.

 

[Keptick]

I will be completely honest, I do not believe that. I was told otherwise since the day the system was added.

I tested it and it does. It was also confirmed by @Calbiri to be the way that the systems work. If it's not the case then there's a bug somewhere (I tested two or three versions ago).

 

[Lecic]

alright great responses!

now how do you guys feel about the Push pulse?

Personally i was starting to like it since it had a natural EMP outage effect. But recently that ability was taken away from it making it completely useless now.

I would really like to not only see that this get put back in but expanded

The EMP Outage effect was removed? I remember testing an Orion Pulse Engine during .16-something and I was still getting EMP'd. When did this happen?

 

[Keptick]

alright great responses!

now how do you guys feel about the Push pulse?

Personally i was starting to like it since it had a natural EMP outage effect. But recently that ability was taken away from it making it completely useless now.

I would really like to not only see that this get put back in but expanded

I'd really like to see it get UNCAPPED range determined by the system's longest dimension, meaning that it could act more like an EvE emp smartbomb than the minuscule fart it is right now. It could be the diameter could be 1.5 times the pulse system's longest dimension (this ratio should be determined in the config). Have all the slave weapons affect it as they normally would.

 

[Lecic]

I'd really like to see it get UNCAPPED range determined by the system's longest dimension, meaning that it could act more like an EvE emp smartbomb than the minuscule fart it is right now. It could be the diameter could be 1.5 times the pulse system's longest dimension (this ratio should be determined in the config). Have all the slave weapons affect it as they normally would.

The issue with this is that it still creates near-useless sized pulses. a 100 block long pulse array would only produce a bubble 150m across, which would be tiny. I'm thinking something along the lines of X+Y+Z, but on a slowly decreasing curve. So, while a 100+50+50 array would produce a 200m bubble, a 300+200+100 array might only be 450 across, or something of the likes.

 

[Criss]

I tested it and it does. It was also confirmed by @Calbiri to be the way that the systems work. If it's not the case then there's a bug somewhere (I tested two or three versions ago).

Well if thats the way it works then I gotta say I don't really like it. I thought it was suppose to only change how the damage was output, not add more. I guess it makes sense? Considering effect modules cannot add damage I thought that was how it was for all slaved systems. And while I have not done enough testing myself I never noticed an overall higher damage output once I slaved systems together.

 

[Crimson-Artist]

The EMP Outage effect was removed? I remember testing an Orion Pulse Engine during .16-something and I was still getting EMP'd. When did this happen?

i think in .17 when we got jump drives.

i was doing some tests to see if i could create a multi pulse array for my boom lance, which would effectively extend the outage time to a configurable amount. i was shooting for a 9 second outage, 3 pulses firing one after another to refresh the outage. after i did a test where i was flying in a ship i found that i was getting pushed but it wasn't causing an outage

 

[Keptick]

Well if thats the way it works then I gotta say I don't really like it. I thought it was suppose to only change how the damage was output, not add more. I guess it makes sense? Considering effect modules cannot add damage I thought that was how it was for all slaved systems. And while I have not done enough testing myself I never noticed an overall higher damage output once I slaved systems together.

It doesn't add more. A 9000 block total "Master+Slave+effect" system will have the exact same Damage output over time as a 9000 block "master (without any slaves)" system. The end result is the exact same damage wise but it's just distributed differently.

Now, there are some exceptions to this rule, like using beam as slave or ION effect.

 

[Yetimania]

I like most aspects of the customization system, but I think that the rate of fire and projectile speed on non-rapid cannons is way too slow.
The projectiles themselves move so slowly that it's often hard to hit without significantly leading your target, something that you can only reliably do with a high rate of fire. I haven't been able to successfully use any of the non-rapid cannon weapon types so far. Shotgun cannons? They spread at a crazy angle; it's practically impossible to hit anything. Cannon/Beam? The faster projectile speed is nice, but it shoots so slowly that you'll never hit. I want non-rapid cannons to be like... BAM. BAM. BAM. and not BAM.................................. BAM............................ BAM...........................
That said, the incredible amount of customization of effects you can do is really awesome. I like the different types of missiles and beams you can make (except for shotgun beam, which is kinda dumb). It's just the cannons that are really lacking when used in a non-rapid capacity.