How do you build?

[bricox01]

I was reading the devlog and I started to think about how different people approached designing and building a new ship.

• Do you sketch out a general concept or do you see it in your head?
• Do you build systems into a hull or do you build a hull around your systems?
• Do you sit down and crunch numbers to get a specific balance of power, shields, TWR, etc?
• Do you decorate the ship as you go or wait until the critical stuff is done?
• What other points do you feel are important in designing a new ship?

Myself, I see a rough design in my head. I mull it over for a little while to work out what the points of interest are.

Once I'm into the game, I lay down a core and proceed to use grey hull to create the outline of the hull. If I'm building a heavy ship, I do a complete hull in grey hull blocks first. I will then make the outer skin out of standard armour because I dislike the squares that regular hull shows. I've sworn off heavy (advanced) armour due to the mass and manueverability issues it brings to the table.

Once most of the shell is finished, I start putting in things like the citadel, the pits for the main turrets, and the engine porn.

Moving inside, I start with the observation rooms of the citadel. I then add a fighter or shuttle bay if I have room for it. I then add the transporter room, the med room, and the core room. With those in and corridors connecting them, I proceed to add power, shields, and other systems.

Next I add fixed forward guns and the main turrets. With those done, I add the secondary and point defense turrets.

I decorate to taste and the proceed to a shake-down cruise to test things out.

How does everyone else do it? No right or wrong answers here. I just want to get an idea of others' processes so as to potentially improve my own. I'm hoping others can get the same benefit.

Oh, I build for PvE if anyone considers that remotely important.

 

[HorribleHedgehog]

I start with the main systems (power, main weapons), lay some outlines for interiors, and then pretty much build the ship around them. I rarely have a concrete idea what kind of ship I'm going to build when I start, the concept starts shaping up naturally while I progress with the build.

 

[MossyStone48]

always start with a role in mind. build the system that is most vital to that one role (like a missile cruiser, miner, scout fighter w/e) then cover that in enough armor to handle a hit from a weapon system with similar power to the most aggressive weapons system included on the ship. add all the needed support systems to make it a viable platform (shields, power, yadda-yadda) and armor those but leave room for adjustments. after weeks of fine tuning go to the community content area and find the prettiest thing trending. spawn 150 as raiders and traders and watch them pummel each other to appease your frustration.

 

[kikaha]

Usually i go from this

to that

But most of the time it is a lot more wilder.

 

[jontyfreack]

slowly and with much detail

 

[bricox01]

slowly and with much detail

Yes, a tiny bit more detail, please.
[doublepost=1506597570,1506596047][/doublepost]Besides role, I will also have a size class in mind. My size classes don't use terms such as fighter, corvette, etc. I use the following:

Small Ship

• Fits within a 25x25x15 box
• Block count not to exceed 80% of box volume

Medium Ship

• Fits within a 100x100x50 box
• Block count not to exceed 60% of box volume
• Mass not to exceed 50% of block count
• Energy/sec not to exceed 1 million
• Must have at least 1 transporter, 1 airlock, 1 med bay

Large Ship

• Fits within a 300x150x150 box
• Block count not exceeding 50% of the box volume
• Mass not exceeding 40% of block count
• Energy/sec not to exceed 2 million
• Must have at least 1 transporter, 2 airlocks, 1 med bay, 1 observation deck

Heavy Ship

• Fits within a 400x200x200 box
• Block count not to exceed 50% of box volume
• Mass not to exceed 50% of block count
• Energy/sec not to exceed 5 million
• Facilities onboard equal to or exceeding those of a large ship

Capital ships are anything bigger and are disallowed on my server. This is mainly to limit lag and latency.

 

[Edymnion]

The biggest part of how I build these days is SMBEdit.

Having to decide where the core will go and build out from there was always the worst part of building for me, SMBEdit fixes that. Now I can toss down a core and start building on any part of the ship that originally sparked my inspiration. That could be "Oh I saw a great way to make engines!" or "I need a drone carrier, so I should start with the hangers", or whatever else. When I eventually build to the point I've reached where the core should go, I just use SMBEdit to move the core.

But before that, I usually just keep my eyes open for something I like.
For example, I've been playing Destiny 2 and this is the first ship you get:

I had to see it every time I changed zones, and really started to like the engine design. So I started there while building a fighter, and ended up with this:


I started with the engine building in front of the core before finally building the cockpit up front and moving it.

Sometimes its a general shape I like, but unless I'm trying for an exact reproduction of an existing scifi ship, I don't even try to frame it out first. I much prefer to build out from a single starting point. That way I don't have to worry about scale or proportions, I just build what flows best from what came before.

I also build from the standpoint of "Big general shape, then refine down with details". Even if I know I won't keep a single block of the first draft of a shape, I still put it in so that I can see how it sits and how it looks in general before I go in an reshape it.

 

[Asvarduil]

So, I really prefer to build sub-100 mass. Some of this, is because I shamelessly self-promote. However, I've built this way long before I ever knew a mass limit was possible in StarMade.

The reason I prefer to build sub-100, isn't only because said ships are cheaper and quicker to replace, but also because they're challenging. Everyone I know who's used to building big ships, who has to build small for any reason, usually says, "I spent more time building my small ship than my big ones, because I have to think about where to put particular blocks!"

As to how I build:

1 - I rough out the general shape in solid hull blocks in a 1-deep layer.
2 - I hollow out key sections - specifically, engines, weapons, and control cabin, and shielding module.
3 - I begin placing blocks. This is where I start to come up with the more ful 3D shape.
3a - Power first.
3b - Engines
3c - Controls/Cameras
3d - Weapons
4 - I cover everything over with a single color of hull.
5 - First ornamentation pass. I choose a secondary color, and inlay those hull blocks specifically.
6 - Second ornamentation pass. This is when I start adding wedges, heptas, and triangle blocks, to smooth the shape out.
7 - Third ornamentation pass. I remove some hulls, and inlay some slab work to texture the hull.

The end result?

 

[jayman38]

I will typically start with a pre-made design, typically a drawing I find, or a concept that I have had in mind for a long time.

I will then plan out the best place for the core, typically using a design program such as OpenOffice Draw with squared geometric shapes overlaid on top of a picture or drawing of the expected design. As suggested by others on this thread, core placement is critical, because once it is there, it is there. When I first played the game, core-drilling was the meta, so it was important to bury the core deep into the ship. Later, as ship destruction because more nuanced, I simply placed the core into the most obvious location for a pilot, typically the cockpit.

I will then, using the blueprints laid out in the design program, lay out the hull. I find that having the shape of the ship in view provides enough enjoyment and motivation to keep building on the inside.

I will then start building interior, based on the egress and ingress points (doors) around the hull. Typically, the designs I work with will have established interior "shots", and I will try to recreate the general feeling of these interiors, if I can't recreate the interiors more closely. I also enjoy the challenge of fitting a good balance of RP interior and just enough useful system blocks to make it work.

Once the interior is mostly in place, I will then place reactors, because that requires the most care in such limited internal space, beyond other basic system blocks.

After reactors are in place, thruster blocks are the next most-critical type of blocks to go in, to give the ship as much thrust as possible. At this point, it is usually pretty hard for a RP build to reach a 1.0 thrust/mass ratio.

This is usually when I will put in any logic blocks that are needed. I will typically need to do some connection gymnastics to avoid interfering with the RP interior.

Almost toward the end, if possible, I try to put in a 100% stop passive effect for the ship to enable hovering in a gravity environment. (If I had my way, I'd have basic hovering handled by the thrusters, and use passive stop for singularities like black holes.)

Finally, I fill in shields if it is a ship that exists in a universe where shields have been invented. If not, I'll still tend to put in a couple of shield rechargers, to keep the ship relatively small-arms-proof. If FTL has been invented, I'll put in a very small FTL drive.

There may be some additional finalizing I might do to make the design a little prettier, but at this point, I'm ready to end the project, and need to start documenting for Community Content.

Lately, I have gone almost to the end of the building process and just wiped entire creative universes, in favor of better design concepts or restarting designs with different hull materials.

 

[wizerdwolf]

For now, I lack a more refined methodology. Right now, since my current job is extremely boring and mind-numbing, I try to keep my brain active thinking of various things, sometimes new ship ideas and features. If I'm able to find a second to do so, I try to quickly sketch down how the ship or ship feature should look. When I get then chance to set about building it, I decide the scale of the ship and begin laying out the core room (For my current set of ships, I've decided to have a more standardized "server room" built around the core, so this is pretty easy to get set up), then I begin wire framing. From there on, I essentially start doing everything at once; interior, shell, details. It's a bit of a chaotic mess, and sometimes I feel like I hit a dead end and am unsure how to proceed.

 

[Scypio]

Spoiler

Sometimes exterior, sometimes interior and system right after the scafolding for the shape.

 

[KiloZulu]

Whatever the concept or inspiration, I'm going to make some sketches, figure out the placement and proportions of key systems I have in mind, and even make some small models in game.
Once I'm ready to start the actual build, I'll design any drones, turrets, or other important items that will help determine the overall scale the ship needs to have (drones will determine hangar bay size, for example.)
I'll place a core and try to lay out some of the essential crew areas that will relate to it.
I may place some power and shields to protect against stray pirate attacks.
I'll create a simple framework that I can use for the placement of the pieces I've created, to make sure they're going to fit properly.
Things start to get less focused after that - depending on my concerns, I may focus on crew quarters, skinning, logic, or specific systems. I'll likely jump back and forth between them.
Skinning is often a priority that helps me place boundaries, determine door/window location, and just give me a feeling of progression. I'm careful to leave access for anything that needs to be docked internally (rail-docked features like elevators and sliding doors, commonly.)
I'll add additional power as I add systems, and maybe move the initial power/shields I'd placed if they get in the way.
Once I have the majority of the ship done, systems, crew decks, turrets docked, skinning, you name it, I'll add the engines and jump drive. This is because, up until this point, I have only had a rough idea of what my mass might look like,, and I'll want to achieve a certain speed/spool-up time.
Any remaining work is likely to be decorative - making sure that I continue to add thrust to compensate for any additional mass added.

In general, I'd say I've done a fair job of guessing how big of an engine space I would need, and it has fit within the space I set aside for it. There has been a time or three where I grossly underestimated the needed space, however, and had to make some greater adjustment to the decorative engine design.

 

[Nauvran]

The biggest part of how I build these days is SMBEdit.

Having to decide where the core will go and build out from there was always the worst part of building for me, SMBEdit fixes that. Now I can toss down a core and start building on any part of the ship that originally sparked my inspiration. That could be "Oh I saw a great way to make engines!" or "I need a drone carrier, so I should start with the hangers", or whatever else. When I eventually build to the point I've reached where the core should go, I just use SMBEdit to move the core.

But before that, I usually just keep my eyes open for something I like.
For example, I've been playing Destiny 2 and this is the first ship you get:
View attachment 45118
I had to see it every time I changed zones, and really started to like the engine design. So I started there while building a fighter, and ended up with this:
View attachment 45119

I started with the engine building in front of the core before finally building the cockpit up front and moving it.

Sometimes its a general shape I like, but unless I'm trying for an exact reproduction of an existing scifi ship, I don't even try to frame it out first. I much prefer to build out from a single starting point. That way I don't have to worry about scale or proportions, I just build what flows best from what came before.

I also build from the standpoint of "Big general shape, then refine down with details". Even if I know I won't keep a single block of the first draft of a shape, I still put it in so that I can see how it sits and how it looks in general before I go in an reshape it.

Having issues building out from a good core location? Git gud you casul.

On another note, use google images, find something you think looks cool and take parts from that for detailing. Then simply just improvise.
Thats at least how I make my stuff.

Here is an album of my building progress of that one ship

 

[Edymnion]

Having issues building out from a good core location? Git gud you casul.

Work smarter, not harder.

 

[Panpiper]

The first thing I will do is to have a VERY clear idea as to what mission a ship is meant to perform in the game. With that mission in mind, I will brainstorm for hours on end about all the ways in which that mission 'could' be preformed optimally. The primary consideration is what systems will be used in the ship, at what scale, and any design details that are necessary. This includes shields, regen, thrust, etc.. I will give plenty of thought to all the problems the ship could encounter in the performance of it's mission and how it's building could permit it to resolve those problems.

During this process, there is typically a lot of calculator usage and pages of paper filled with numbers and notes. Usually by this point, I might have a vague idea as to what the ship will look like, but nothing at all firm. This is not usually a 'stage' that starts at one point and ends at another. This is actually an ongoing process that never really ends as different approaches war within my mind for dominance.

Once I have finalized a concept sufficiently, I will build any systems that should be tested in a temporary block form to make sure they perform properly. Weapons will be tested versus armor targets to ensure that they work as expected. Then I will assemble all the systems together in an extremely rough block form that will be completely disassembled shortly. The intent here is to test all the ship systems together to ensure that I have not overlooked anything, that everything is appropriately powered, that it has the movement characteristics needed, etc..

This blocked out ship will include the calculated approximate number of armor blocks the final ship will have, so it will have the mass necessary for proper testing. This test ship includes all systems and all blocks. They are simply not assembled in any serious ship like fashion, just big rectangular blocks of blocks strung together in a 'very' rough approximation of a ship. Note I will have also created some empty space blocks for crew quarters and the like, RP space. By this point, I will have a more firm idea as to what the ship will actually look like and a very solid idea as to how large it will be.

Once I know that all the planned systems work well together and that the planned mass of blocks will actually function as planned, I will usually leave that block assemblage alone, in case it is needed for further testing. Then I will build any and all turrets intended for the ship. (More on how I build turrets.) These will be final assemblages, as the testing for the turret systems would have already been done in the previous phase. I will test them again however when built. I will spend all necessary time to get the turrets performing optimally and do whatever work I desire for their final look.

That done, I will finally lay down the first block of the ship proper. I will have already identified where in the ship I want my bridge (technically really the C&C) to be and where the core will be in that bridge, usually deep inside and to the rear of the ship. The first thing I build is the bridge. I will actually spend some time making the bridge look half way decent, as I actually spend time here. All necessary functions will be managed from this bridge and it will be built accordingly. The structure of my bridges is ALWAYS advanced armor, and even the light fixtures will be externally covered with a block of advanced armor. This is the final layer of protection for the most critical part of the ship.

In the old power system, I would lay down the power system at this point. With the old build system being gutted and effectively a completely new build system replacing it from the ground up (a brand new game really, Starmade is dead, long live Starmade), when I actually lay down the power system may change. In the old system, on medium sized ships, the power system very much informed the structure and layout of the ship and the ship very much had to be built around the power system, so power was typically the first thing I built, so as to ensure I had the maximum needed amount of it. If the ship I am building is meant to be able to mine, I will build it's salvage array now. (More on salvage arrays.)

The next thing I would do, is to put down the turrets. This would require a skeleton of hull blocks creating a frame to which the turrets are attached. Much of that hull would be promptly removed after the turrets are affixed. I would then build the first block layer of any internal turret containment to ensure that they all are able to rotate properly. This skeleton and turret structure will ultimately very much determine the final shape of the ship.

Any intended RP space will be placed at this point along with connecting hall ways. The space will be lit. I may or may not do any detailing of such space at this point. Such niceties I typically do whenever I feel like it. I have plenty of ships I have gotten to warfighting readiness that have essentially empty RP spaces still. I have others where the RP space was finished long before the ship was actually flyable. However at the very minimum, the empty space 'needs' to be placed before system blocks go in, or you'll have the devil's time adding it later.

My previous calculations and testing will have ensured that the layout I now have currently outlined with my skeleton and turret placement will be sufficient to contain all the requisite systems (I actually try to overestimate the required space a bit). Knowing this, with some confidence I typically build the skin of the ship now, intending to fill the space between that skin and the already placed turrets, RP space and power system, with system blocks as necessary. This however is again with the old build system. The exigencies of the new system may require that they be placed before the skin. It is too early to know. In any case, when I put down the skin of the ship, I do so very much with turret arcs of fire in mind. I like for my turrets to have very good arcs of fire and the final shape of my ship has more to do with ensuring such fire arcs than it does with aesthetics.

With the skin in place, I will fill in the available (not RP) interior space with the system blocks planned as necessary to finish the ship. I test everything repeatedly to ensure that the precise amount is there and working as planned. Any remaining space (I always try to have a bit of wiggle room planned, just to be safe) will be filled with more shields and/or thrusters. The ship should now be fully functional. I will test everything again.

The ship is now done, except for being pretty. I will typically make a small effort to make it pretty, but as often as not, my small effort will be to give it a few lines of color or something to break it's monotony. None of my ships will win any competitions for looks. They could however win competitions for effectiveness, which is what "I" care most about.

All the above was written to be build system neutral. Even with the new system being programmed now, I expect the build process I outlined above to remain. If we were sticking with the old system, my description would have likely had a few extra paragraphs about self powered turrets, docked power, inheritance, and docked hull armor. There would have also been a detailed description as to how to have the cores for all such docked systems built within your bridge containment to minimize problems with free floating docked systems in combat. I probably would have added advice as to weapon systems, defensive passives, appropriate armor systems, etc.. However all of that is now one giant unknown as more than just power is being completely rewritten.

Much of that is out the window now. Complexities such as docked power are now things of the past. I lament their passing, as it added a VERY deep layer of challenge and mastery to building. The new system will certainly be easier on new players and those who don't want to be faced with opponents who spend months building a ship that can only be defeated by much greater numbers or another similar ship that took months to build.

 

[Dr. Whammy]

I was reading the devlog and I started to think about how different people approached designing and building a new ship.

• Do you sketch out a general concept or do you see it in your head?
• Do you build systems into a hull or do you build a hull around your systems?
• Do you sit down and crunch numbers to get a specific balance of power, shields, TWR, etc?
• Do you decorate the ship as you go or wait until the critical stuff is done?
• What other points do you feel are important in designing a new ship?

Myself, I see a rough design in my head. I mull it over for a little while to work out what the points of interest are.

Once I'm into the game, I lay down a core and proceed to use grey hull to create the outline of the hull. If I'm building a heavy ship, I do a complete hull in grey hull blocks first. I will then make the outer skin out of standard armour because I dislike the squares that regular hull shows. I've sworn off heavy (advanced) armour due to the mass and manueverability issues it brings to the table.

Once most of the shell is finished, I start putting in things like the citadel, the pits for the main turrets, and the engine porn.

Moving inside, I start with the observation rooms of the citadel. I then add a fighter or shuttle bay if I have room for it. I then add the transporter room, the med room, and the core room. With those in and corridors connecting them, I proceed to add power, shields, and other systems.

Next I add fixed forward guns and the main turrets. With those done, I add the secondary and point defense turrets.

I decorate to taste and the proceed to a shake-down cruise to test things out.

How does everyone else do it? No right or incorrect answers here. I just want to get an idea of others' processes so as to potentially improve my own. I'm hoping others can get the same benefit.

Oh, I build for PvE if anyone considers that remotely important.

My 'standard' build types (Challenger, Voyager and Pathfinder for example) have been revised for many years. Most of my designs are modular or template-based and as such, I build most of their general shapes and system patterns from memory. With that having been said, I consider all of my ship designs to be "test beds" for different thrust, shield, weapon, environmental and equipment loadouts.

The current (soon to be former) power system forces me to place my reactors first to ensure efficiency then build the ship/structure around the power grid. So I tend to slightly upscale (for my size) my builds to accommodate the extra system blocks.

When I test out different shapes (the Volcov industrial and Lancer for example) I use a similar systems layout then build around it but all the newer designs pour straight out of my head on the fly.

I'm intrigued by Schine's claim that the new power system will allow for more variety in design; supposedly, without sacrificing efficiency. If their claim holds true, I'll be varying my future designs considerably.

 

[bricox01]

I've got a question: Do people figure that it's better for larger ships to have a smaller number of bigger turrets or a bigger number of smaller turrets? Also, reasons please.

 

[Panpiper]

The amount of surface area you can cover with turrets is limited. The power you have available is also limited. I will know before building roughly how much power and surface area I will have, and I will build the turrets to fit that area before I build anything else. I will also have a very good idea how much power I will need for all the non-weapon systems and therefore how much power I have available for weapons. What I will do is to divide the power available by the number of (non point defense) weapon turrets and put weapon systems inside those turrets sufficient to use up that power.

If I am building a cannon/cannon weapon it will need to be over 4000 blocks in size in order to do armor breaking damage. 4000 blocks is a pretty decent sized turret on it's own. A cannon/beam turret can be quite small, doing armor breaking damage with as few as 100 blocks. Normally the power can handle more of those 100 block sized weapons than I have turrets available, so the turrets will wind up having multiple cannon/beam weapons inside of them, sufficient to use the space and power.

One important thing to note. You CAN put more than one weapon system into a turret. You should NOT however put different 'types' of weapons into the same turret. Never mix missiles with cannons, never mix cannon/cannon with cannon/beam, etc..

Again though, with the upcoming changes to power and then weapons, so much can change, and everything may soon have to be completely rethought. Anything we build now most certainly will have to be rebuilt later.

 

[bricox01]

So you figure the HMS Dreadnought approach of an all big guns set-up is the way to go then?

 

[Az14el]

You should always try to focus on DPS, damage vs shields is a much more linear calc & they can become much more problematic to shoot through than a bunch of armor, which is weak as hell vs metaprojectiles & piercing effect. Basically your DPP is not a very "reliable" stat under any situation, whereas your dps is always serving as a "maximum punching range" against shield recharge & mobility (the things that are going to drop your dps against a target, unlike armor which only soaks and can be heavily subverted by piercing effect & metaprojectiles again)
There's a lot of very well built ships out there with damn near perfect block dmg outputs that have like, 5-10 dps;mass at best, and are insanely counterable by just being (actually) shieldy as a result.
[doublepost=1506837106,1506836923][/doublepost]Fucking damn it wrong thread, hey guys do the dps its gud i swer

(argue w/ me in the dps advice thread if you want so not to hijack this one and whatnot)