Starmade being overtaken?

[Comradecolonel]

Starmade won't be overtaken. There is no other game that has the technology that Starmade has right now. It hasn't really proven itself in the market yet either. Until it proves itself, other companies are most likely not going bite. I would only be worried if a larger, more experience dev team decided to make a game that was trying to do all the things that Starmade wants to do. Even then all I really care about is Starmade being finished. I don't think that any game will be capable of gutting the playerbase of Starmade. That is unless Schine does something to drive away all its players.

 

[Mariux]

I say, the more space sandbox games the better. I will definitely check Sky Wanderers out.

 

[Ultragamer2000]

I say, the more space sandbox games the better. I will definitely check Sky Wanderers out.

I agree, that would give more variety.

 

[NeonSturm]

Something I miss in games:

1. Voxels for 1m and lower not Boxels (as in SpaceEngineers asteroids) and placement of whole chunks aligned to the chunk-grid for more FPS
   
2. Uses simplified physics and building tools to encourage builds supporting this simple physics system for higher FPS
   
3. Has a lot of logic (more AI and UI stuff than SM's display blocks) which you can also use IRL by exporting it to java/javascript/php/regex.
   
4. Encourages space battles similar to StarConflict, not with voxel-destruction
5. Encourages RolePlay, designing of trade systems and interior
6. Open Source so that you can extend it like with MC mods and also fix problems yourself instead of having to wait for devs to do it.

Many games have a few things, none has everything I want. And building one takes years if you have no base to extend upon.
If it were just the higher-level rules (how much does a block cost, …) without networking or fancy-hardware -support I would have done it by now.

 

[happahappa]

In regard to potential competition on the pre-alpha-frontier, I'm actually more excited about 'The Dual Universe'. Because those guys really want to build a sandbox game, that can scale up to massive multiplayer. That is something, starmade can't do. What is the vastness of a virtual universe worth, if only a very limited number of players can 'live' in it. So that's a big dream for me

 

[JinM]

In regard to potential competition on the pre-alpha-frontier, I'm actually more excited about 'The Dual Universe'. Because those guys really want to build a sandbox game, that can scale up to massive multiplayer. That is something, starmade can't do. What is the vastness of a virtual universe worth, if only a very limited number of players can 'live' in it. So that's a big dream for me

Would you really enjoy building stuff in a mmo sandbox? They will never have an offline mode. They will only have one big world. Just asking. =)

 

[happahappa]

Would you really enjoy building stuff in a mmo sandbox? They will never have an offline mode. They will only have one big world. Just asking. =)

Sorry, but I don't see how being capable of MMO forces you to have no offline mode, or what the disadvantage could be, of not having an offline mode. But I also don't know, what the particualr company developing the 'Dual Universe' has in mind regarding all of that.

 

[Ghent96]

In regard to potential competition on the pre-alpha-frontier, I'm actually more excited about 'The Dual Universe'. Because those guys really want to build a sandbox game, that can scale up to massive multiplayer. That is something, starmade can't do. What is the vastness of a virtual universe worth, if only a very limited number of players can 'live' in it. So that's a big dream for me

Great dream. I think a lot of us share that. The network and server code for SM has needed work for a long time and has never gotten much attention. More than 1 galaxy = crash. We've asked the devs to remove them / add a config line to limit # galaxies. No response. More than 30 or so players = crash. Any big battle = lag & crash. No useful entity cleanup tools. No AI tools. Buggy AI & NPC spawns. Planets buggy & crashy.

So SM isn't mmo. Some of us have tried to mod it to have some MOBA or PVP arena gameplay, and it is just buggy. Gravity is a problem. Planets are buggy. Space arenas are a nightmare of bouncing from one sector boundary to another (big sectors just crash the game and ruin the rest of the galaxy).

Across the history of development, Server & client stability and performance has gone steadily down instead of up. This is not progress.

I don't think Schine anymore can figure out what they really want SM to be, but it's not any longer what it started as.

...That is unless Schine does something to drive away all its players.

Well, we're all seeing them hard at work on this very thing right now, and for the past few months. They're dinking around changing the fundametal structure of the game at a pre-pre-alpha level, even pre-coding level. The proposed power & system changes take SM all the way back to whiteboard and brainstorming level and they should have done this before EVER writing the first lines of code.

Schine are not developing well, and it makes me & a ton of others worry that SM was just a cash grab to make a new start-up studio, especially with the Steam release. Statistically, "everyone" has left this game. SM is already dead, and the devs are pushing many of the leftover stalwarts like myself farther away towards quitting with all their continued BS.

We've been asking for some things, features, bug fixes, now for 3-4 YEARS. We've been playing, promoting, streaming, hosting & paying for servers, testing, bug-reporting for 4+ years now, and many of the bugs we've worked so hard on are completely irrelevant now... Server admins have NEVER gotten any support or features... That's a slap in the face.
Big
Slap.
In.
The.
Face.

This is not how a good game & devs treat their players & testers.

 

[JinM]

Sorry, but I don't see how being capable of MMO forces you to have no offline mode, or what the disadvantage could be, of not having an offline mode. But I also don't know, what the particualr company developing the 'Dual Universe' has in mind regarding all of that.

I don't understand this answer. What are you trying to say? You are fine with allways online? Anway fyi: They clearly stated, that this game has no offline mode. Look at their kickstarter FAQ.

 

[MacThule]

This is not how a good game & devs treat their players & testers.

alterintel or somebody please get this f***ing alt account out of here or at least remove this thread that is very clearly about alternatives to StarMade to the OFF TOPIC forum where it belongs rather than constantly at the top of "General" every time somebody bumps it here. It's far to prominently displayed to uninformed newer members in General. The only relevance to StarMade is non-constructive criticism, reasons why you shouldn't play StarMade, and other alternative games that might be better. Him being bitter about money he's 'wasted' hosting servers is about as respectable as a teenager who is bitter about the money he dumped into an arcade box; no one forced him to spend on a server.

This whole thing is not on-topic. At this point he's clearly here advertising for another game and spewing bile:

Making unfounded and utterly non-constructive character assaults on the development team's comprehension of and commitment to the project.

Bitching about how the core code is buggy, then bitching that the devs are revising on the core code.

Whining about bugs, then whining about changes that make those bugs irrelevant.

Expressing obviously disingenuous "worry" that SM is a "cash grab" despite the constant increase in budget expenditures from additional staff.

And even outright lying to push people away from StarMade and to his new pet game project:

Across the history of development, Server & client stability and performance has gone steadily down instead of up. This is not progress.

Those who have been here have all seen how the number changes in the top servers go steadily up, seen the growth in stable ship sizes, and seen the gradual reduction in client crashes during standard gameplay, but these lies will poison newer forum members who do not have the context to know he's full of crap.

 

[The_Owl]

Ssomebody please get this f***ing alt account out of here

"
Joined:
Mar 15, 2014"

It's the long con, isn't it.

 

[Comradecolonel]

Those who have been here have all seen how the number changes in the top servers go steadily up, seen the growth in stable ship sizes, and seen the gradual reduction in client crashes during standard gameplay, but these lies will poison newer forum members who do not have the context to know he's full of crap.

Yes I agree. Its viewpoint that if it isn't BS then its delusional.

Well, we're all seeing them hard at work on this very thing right now, and for the past few months. They're dinking around changing the fundametal structure of the game at a pre-pre-alpha level, even pre-coding level. The proposed power & system changes take SM all the way back to whiteboard and brainstorming level and they should have done this before EVER writing the first lines of code.

I personally agree with the change. Not because I feel the new system is the greatest thing ever, but because systems are WAY under their potential right now. To think that Starmade only has to go forward in unrealistic. You can't brainstorm something that has never been done before and KNOW that it will work. There are a lot of new things that Starmade has done and sadly it can only be done by trial and error. Its the reason big studios don't try projects like this.

We've been asking for some things, features, bug fixes, now for 3-4 YEARS. We've been playing, promoting, streaming, hosting & paying for servers, testing, bug-reporting for 4+ years now, and many of the bugs we've worked so hard on are completely irrelevant now... Server admins have NEVER gotten any support or features... That's a slap in the face.

Not sure what features you've been asking for but they obviously aren't a priority. I have things I want I know probably won't be in until beta if at all. Regardless many things that I have wanted have been put in the game. Even the new build tools that are coming is something that I wanted for a LONG time. I haven't gotten everything but I feel my patience has paid off.

As far as admin support I understand why people are upset but its no reason to say the game is crumbling. Online has just died down a bunch becasue most players that are left are waiting and building. Very few people that I play with still play online but many are still building.

 

[Edymnion]

Very few people that I play with still play online but many are still building.

This is me.

There aren't any servers out there anymore that have setups I want to play in, so I stick to single player. The community offered by other players doesn't outweigh the griefing and the restrictions placed by the servers, so I just don't play online.

 

[happahappa]

Well, performance certainly increased over time.But it is still true, that battles almost always render the game completly useless. Even fighting pirates is causing so much lag. And any space battle on an interesting scale is just unbearable. I just had that experience. Logic freezes, computer reaction freezes. You watch movements of other ships frame-by-frame as they warp around, all systems get completly erratic. I really like this game, but multiplayer performance is still very bad. So I understand, why people get frustrated about it. When it comes to the interesting stuff, it is almost always a disappointment. That's why I'm so excited about other game engines, which are being developed with scaling in mind from the very beginning.

 

[Spoolooni]

I've actually done a fair share of analyzing these two games side by side because let us be straight about the facts here: They are disturbingly similar. From logic gates to rotating blocks and space exploration, I'd say Sky Wanderers albeit not a direct threat, still poses as a competing title along with other space sandbox games.

Do I think Sky Wanderers might "overtake" Starmade? I have strong feelings that this may be a possibility in the sense that it may just attract a way larger crowd than Starmade ever could but the reason why I state "may" is because like Starmade, Sky Wanderers is still in pre-alpha. Arguably, its features are more lacking than Starmade as it seems to be a newborn title entering the scope of available voxel-based space exploration games. Where I think we all can agree on is that Unity, the engine Sky Wanderers uses, boasts a larger potential than Javascript. The trailers seem to sport combat and maneuverability that appear to be smooth sailing with high performances. Starmade's trailers on the other hand, reveal its own flaws with combat and ship piloting being on the more laggy and jerky side.

There's no doubt that based on the fact that Sky Wanderers is a game that runs of Unity, a much newer engine for game development is much more likely to succeed where Starmade simply cannot thanks the limitations of Javascript. While I hate judging the game based on its engine, I'm witnessing the raw potential of Unity itself and if the developers of Sky Wanderers so choose to unlock such potential, Starmade may just get the shorter end of the stick.

However, Starmade also has a fairly loyal community that's patient and passionate about their memorable times they had playing Starmade and as long there's a few people to stay in the game and keep generating content for it, Starmade will never be overtaken by another game. I thought it would be fair to view this from a cold and analytical perspective rather than one that is anecdotal. I myself are starting to feel the allure of promise coming from Sky Wanderer's development and the creator seems just as passionate, respectful and humble as Starmade's team as well.

 

[Comradecolonel]

The community offered by other players doesn't outweigh the griefing and the restrictions placed by the servers, so I just don't play online.

I just find the base game to have very little to hold my interest. If it wasn't for the building aspects of the game I probably would have almost zero interest in playing starmade. Almost every other aspect is boring and repetitive. The game as a whole doesn't stimulate much in me besides building and being creative.

I just had that experience. Logic freezes, computer reaction freezes. You watch movements of other ships frame-by-frame as they warp around, all systems get completly erratic. I really like this game, but multiplayer performance is still very bad. So I understand, why people get frustrated about it. When it comes to the interesting stuff, it is almost always a disappointment. That's why I'm so excited about other game engines, which are being developed with scaling in mind from the very beginning.

I don't think a better engine exists to do what Starmade to do. If you break games down into how much data is in the objects that make up the world, Starmade has to work with a lot more data. Sure it may not look like much but it really is a LOT of data. Most games use smoke and mirrors to provide an emulated experience. I have nothing against it but what I am getting at is that there really are no engines that work like starmade's engine. Development would be far easier if there was some sort of reference but there isn't.

Do I think Sky Wanderers might "overtake" Starmade? I have strong feelings that this may be a possibility in the sense that it may just attract a way larger crowd than Starmade ever could but the reason why I state "may" is because like Starmade, Sky Wanderers is still in pre-alpha. Arguably, its features are more lacking than Starmade as it seems to be a newborn title entering the scope of available voxel-based space exploration games. Where I think we all can agree on is that Unity, the engine Sky Wanderers uses, boasts a larger potential than Javascript. The trailers seem to sport combat and maneuverability that appear to be smooth sailing with high performances. Starmade's trailers on the other hand, reveal its own flaws with combat and ship piloting being on the more laggy and jerky side.

There's no doubt that based on the fact that Sky Wanderers is a game that runs of Unity, a much newer engine for game development is much more likely to succeed where Starmade simply cannot thanks the limitations of Javascript. While I hate judging the game based on its engine, I'm witnessing the raw potential of Unity itself and if the developers of Sky Wanderers so choose to unlock such potential, Starmade may just get the shorter end of the stick.

I agree that skywanderers may eventually start to become popular on a level past Starmade. Considering that is a low bar to pass I wouldn't doubt the possibilty. Most People aren't looking for a universe simulator, they just want to experience the thrill and excitment of an adventure. Starmade aims to do far more than that.

I don't want you to take this the wrong way but I feel you have some misconceptions about the platforms that these two games are using. First off Starmade uses Java not Javascript. They are two totally different languages that have different uses. It doesn't really matter too much but I think it makes it clear to people what you know when you say something like that.

Second Java and Javascrpt are languages while unity is a game engine and development suite. It is literally like comparing apples to orange. If Unity supported Java you could write a game in Unity using Java. There are not mutually exclusive. Javascript is actually supported in Unity so Skywanderers may even be written in that.

Third is the common argument that Java is old, outdated, and slow. This is why Starmade is slow combined with a few optimized parts. This is not true for the most part. The reason for many of the performance issues has nothing to do with Java. It has to do with the way that the Starmade universe ticks. As I stated above in this post, Starmade is working with large amounts of data. Having a continous universe that accounts for every last meter of material is a very expensive (computing-wise) way to simulate a universe. What Schema has to do is balance a little smoke and mirrors with an actual intractable universe.

The main advantage of unity is that it takes a lot of tedium out of developing an engine from scratch. It has so much already built into the engine that it makes it much easier to focus on developing the unique aspects of a game. You don't have to go through the trouble of writing code to take car of basic physics, lighting, etc. This also limits how you can do things. You can't build something from scratch in Unity as far as methods already in place.

However, Starmade also has a fairly loyal community that's patient and passionate about their memorable times they had playing Starmade and as long there's a few people to stay in the game and keep generating content for it, Starmade will never be overtaken by another game. I thought it would be fair to view this from a cold and analytical perspective rather than one that is anecdotal. I myself are starting to feel the allure of promise coming from Sky Wanderer's development and the creator seems just as passionate, respectful and humble as Starmade's team as well.

I agree with this as well. I don't see people moving to another game from Starmade. I feel if you've spent more than a few months here you're here to stay. Once development actually ends that's when people should start worrying about people leaving. With how far away that probably is I'm not even going to predict. The game and community will most likely look completely different by then.

 

[Spoolooni]

Thanks for clearing the misconception but my statement still holds merit albeit on the wrong information. It is certainly true that Starmade does offer a lot of content but the problem is that the content just isn't stable. Sky Wanderers on the other hand has a small pool of content that seems* stable and less intensive. However, Sky Wanderers is heading towards kickstarter in about a few months time. In my opinion, this gives Starmade a margin of time to solve its problems.

 

[Alphajim]

If you think Schine will speed up anything just because there is another game on kickstarter...
They don't care. At all.

That's better this way. No rushed content. No shiny trash just to satisfy some patience-less players.

 

[Comradecolonel]

Thanks for clearing the misconception but my statement still holds merit albeit on the wrong information. It is certainly true that Starmade does offer a lot of content but the problem is that the content just isn't stable. Sky Wanderers on the other hand has a small pool of content that seems* stable and less intensive. However, Sky Wanderers is heading towards kickstarter in about a few months time. In my opinion, this gives Starmade a margin of time to solve its problems.

Even though you didnt have all the facts straight your point is still just as valid. I'm not particularly worried about it but I'm biased. I've spent my whole life having games that literally no one else plays so if thats the way Starmade is going to be then I'm fine with it. For people who are looking for an MMO type experience, I can understand the concern.

 

[Spoolooni]

Even though you didnt have all the facts straight your point is still just as valid. I'm not particularly worried about it but I'm biased. I've spent my whole life having games that literally no one else plays so if thats the way Starmade is going to be then I'm fine with it. For people who are looking for an MMO type experience, I can understand the concern.

I am actually interested to know if it's possible for Starmade to go on Kickstarter, I actually didn't think they ever did begin on Kickstarter and certainly if they had the money, I'm sure they can do a lot more with the game with a lot less time. But Schema doesn't seem to be enticed by the idea of a crowd funded game and seems to solely develop this game on the incentive of passion which is admirable but I feel as they do need more support and funding if they want to start approaching a finished game with all these seductive proposals.

In addition, after you've corrected my ignorance, I actually feel as if Unity could be a great tool that can help Starmade or Starmade in its latest editions. Perhaps a long ways down the road, incorporating unity could be a possibility as you explained Java being a language is actually compatible with this "tool."