Stifled building in the shadow of an impending update

[alterintel]

Hey Guys,

As the title suggests, I'm not currently building. Most of my building is on hold because I'm waiting for the outcome of 2 major overhauls that are coming out.

The Power Overhaul

The Crew Update

Why build systems in your ship if you're going to have to re-build in a couple of weeks anyways.

What with the Power Overhaul thread I got all excited that we were finally going to get rid of those annoying power "lines". When the news came out about the Power Overhaul I was in the process of putting in the power system for my Defiant. (Which I was pretty proud of by the way). I like to think that I got pretty good at putting down power lines. It's definitely a skill that you only need in Starmade, one that I will happily give up when the new power system gets implemented. But as soon as the news came of the power overhaul all building efforts on systems for my ship stopped. Why build systems in your ship if you're going to have to re-build in a couple of weeks anyways

But I only started building again recently, but by recently I mean within the last 6 months or so. I had stopped before because I was waiting on the last major update that everybody was expecting from like a year ago, The Crew Update. As soon as it was apparent that we were going to get "Crew" and "Quarters" I stopped building because... Why build systems in your ship if you're going to have to re-build in a couple of weeks anyways

But this seems to be a reoccurring theme. The big update is just around the corner. and it's been this way for quite some time. I don't know if it's just me, but I kind of miss the days of when I didn't "know" what was going to happen in the next update. Don't get me wrong, I like a good rumor or spoiler as much as the next guy, but it seems to be detracting from my joy in playing the game.

We all know this game isn't even in Beta yet, and this means, that there will be alot more changes down the road. But I liked it better when I could build a ship and not have in the back of my mind that it wont work in literally the next update.

Which, by the way, this actually happened. Remember when docked thrust first became a thing. I literally make a ship the next week that took advantage of this. and then without much warning the docked thrust "bug / exploit" was fixed. This knocked my ship thrust from 8K down to 4K.

My point is when I didn't know about the impending update I had alot of fun building that ship. Even though, literally the next update broke it. But now that I "know" about the upcoming Power update and the Crew update, I'm afraid to build because I'll have to change everything again. The updates haven't come out yet and I'm still not building.

If there's going to be another "Big" update or "Overhaul", I'm not sure if I want to know. The anticipation is literally killing my creativity.

 

[Tunk]

I started ignoring the milestone updates over 6 months ago, when I spotted various parts of the crew update partially implemented in starmade about a year and a half ago (among other things) and they still weren't implemented on my return about that time.

Now I build on current version and fix/refit for releases as they come.

 

[kikaha]

Get building ! Power overhaul ? I'm really tired of reading people about this. WHAT power overhaul ?!! It was an idea, not a thing they are going to do for certain.

As for the crew, well make some quarters for some personel and there you go.

 

[Brokengauge]

I'm constantly rebuilding all my ships anyway. It hasn't hindered me from building in the slightest. Having 2 toddlers on the other hand? That's another story lol.

Anyway, I continue to build because every time I do, I learn something. Up until last year, I'd learn so much that I couldn't bear to even gaze upon my older creations, so I'd pull a Michael Bay on them and give them a dark and gritty reboot.

Although, I've finally found a good style that I've kept to a consistent point for over a year, if I have to completely overhaul everything I've built, it's really no big deal, since I'll probably have grown unhappy with them by then anyway lol.

What I'm trying to say, is don't look at it as " time spent doing work" because work is depressing, and SM is supposed to be a fun game. Instead, try to look at it as "time spent learning and improving a skill for a hobby". Each new project should teach you something, wether it's new uses for logic, a cool emergent gameplay mechanic, or even designing a ship to fill a role that never even occurred to you until now, because if you do that now, then when you have to do it again in a few months, you'll be BETTER. Work through all your bad ideas now, so when crew show up and power is changed, you'll have an easier time integrating that into new designs.

Just my 2¢. If you don't need it, then give it back, I'm kind of broke...

 

[DukeofRealms]

re-build in a couple of weeks anyways.

If it happens, it's at least months before it becomes default. Most of the work involved with overhauls (Power) are planning and balancing, very little development time in comparison. Planning and balancing is where the community can actually help, and so, we've decided to open up that process.

The Crew Update

rumor or spoiler as much as the next guy

Well, the crew update has never been scheduled as the "next" major update. Not sure where you're hearing this from, NPC factions have been planned and worked on for a very long time, but not Crew. NPC Factions, universe update, planets, AI overhaul, fleets, shipyard fixes, audio engine, sound track and SFX have all been scheduled before Crew. There's been a miscommunication/misunderstanding from us or rumour spreading from community members if Crew is widely believed to be "around the corner".

I'm just going to say it right here and now, we don't have any "solid" plans for Crew, it's not in our current development focus. Planning for it hasn't even begun. It takes us a couple of months at minimum to plan for a system like that.

What are we working on right now?

• Changing our release cycle to allow development to work more efficiently, and to reduce major bugs in release builds. Current release cycle is not realistic, has left development rushing to meet deadlines, leaving serious bugs in release builds. Which then eat up the next release cycle, leaving even less time, more rush.
• Addressing major/release blocking bugs currently in release. Some of which have been reported for weeks.
• Planet overhaul, current planets are being scrapped, in favour of a new system. Massive performance improvements expected. We suspect the "design" of the newer planets will be more appealing to the player base.
• Soundtrack, Danki is working on creating the complete StarMade soundtrack.
• Audio Engine planning, we're currently figuring out how best to address this.
• Writing documentation for the community to have an understanding of where development is heading and what we hope to achieve with StarMade.
• AI overhaul planning and general discussion, how to best address this issue, what needs to be done before this to avoid redoing it again in the near future.
• Trailer planning, scripts, audio and scheduling.
• UI improvement discussions. How to make it easier to get into StarMade, locating common issues new users experience.
• Discussing how to create and plan for a streamlined tutorial.
• Power overhaul proposal version 2.0.
• Documenting current issues/lacking features with systems in the game now and how to address them. Additionally, how the power overhaul if done, would affect these systems.
• Universe update planning.
• Planning and discussion on the best way we can cover lots of development ground to hit beta in a reasonable timeframe.

Plus other things, but this should give a general sense.

The two updates holding you back aren't coming for at least months, one of them (Power) might not even happen at all.

 

[alterintel]

The two updates holding you back aren't coming for at least months, one of them (Power) might not even happen at all.

Thanks for the Update
Time to get back to building

Yeah, the "just around the corner" was a bit of an exaggeration, but at least I was able to communicate my point. From the list of things you're working on, I'm most intrigued by planets, and power. Can't wait

I'm a bit dis-heartened that the power update may not even happen. I was so looking forward to getting rid of the lines and crosses.

 

[Spartan4845]

I'm not usually the glass half empty type of guy, but the more I see and hear I wonder why the devs even started talking about a possible power change so early. For the most part all it's done is cause drama in the community and a large amount of builders to flat out stop building.

 

[Edymnion]

Yup, all the people saying they weren't going to build anything until the power overhaul came out just had me going "Wait, they said they were maybe thinking about proposing the idea of this" and that it wasn't even on the timeline yet.

You're going to stop building now, because of something that was flat out said probably wasn't going to happen for at least a year? Good luck with that.

 

[Ithirahad]

A little offtopic, but:

Which, by the way, this actually happened. Remember when docked thrust first became a thing. I literally make a ship the next week that took advantage of this. and then without much warning the docked thrust "bug / exploit" was fixed. This knocked my ship thrust from 8K down to 4K.

That was an exploit. Exploits get fixed without warning. Expect that. (That is the one practical reason not to use exploits, aside from server rules)

 

[Master_Artificer]

A little offtopic, but:



That was an exploit. Exploits get fixed without warning. Expect that. (That is the one practical reason not to use exploits, aside from server rules)

To the unknowing its not an exploit but a feature.

 

[Ithirahad]

Circumventing established mechanics by something like that is quite obviously an exploit. If they wanted to remove the diminishing returns on thrusters, they would've just done that. :P

 

[Brokengauge]

A little offtopic, but:



That was an exploit. Exploits get fixed without warning. Expect that. (That is the one practical reason not to use exploits, aside from server rules)

When I built a docked thrust ship, I didn't feel like I was exploiting anything. Hell, I honestly didn't even notice the huge performance boost it gave, I just wanted it to be possible to have an engine pod be blown off. Now however, the thrust on a docked entity is so weak, I STILL don't bother using it.

Of course, since I haven't used it in like, a year, maybe it's not as weak as I remember. Hrmmm...tests.

 

[Gasboy]

I'm not letting any update stop me from building ships. I've had to rebuild and redesign before, and I'll have to do it again. The only sort of update I don't like are the ones that break the game to the point of non-working. Which are thankfully rare.
[doublepost=1489072211,1489072164][/doublepost]

When I built a docked thrust ship, I didn't feel like I was exploiting anything. Hell, I honestly didn't even notice the huge performance boost it gave, I just wanted it to be possible to have an engine pod be blown off. Now however, the thrust on a docked entity is so weak, I STILL don't bother using it.

Of course, since I haven't used it in like, a year, maybe it's not as weak as I remember. Hrmmm...tests.

I just recently built a ship that only uses docked thrust, it's just shy of 50m long, and seems to be fairly peppy for it's size. I don't think docked thrust is all that weak.

 

[Brokengauge]

I'm not letting any update stop me from building ships. I've had to rebuild and redesign before, and I'll have to do it again. The only sort of update I don't like are the ones that break the game to the point of non-working. Which are thankfully rare.
[doublepost=1489072211,1489072164][/doublepost]

I just recently built a ship that only uses docked thrust, it's just shy of 50m long, and seems to be fairly peppy for it's size. I don't think docked thrust is all that weak.

I'll have to revisit it then. The ship I had worked on was about 5k mass. And the engine pods in back were hull, lights, and filled solid with thrust. There were 4, 2 halves on each side. In the original design where they were integrated I got up to about 150m/s. When I changed them over to being docked, I "embiggened" them and got it up to 175m/s (my server always has custom size and speed, so it's not really that fast). Once the "exploit" was fixed, it shot down to about 50m/s top speed, and really threw me for a loop lol. The stupid thing barely moved, so I copy pasted the docked pods back directly onto the ship, and managed to retain a speed of about 175. Or thereabouts.

And thusly I reserved myself to the probability that I'll never be able to blow an engine pod off a ship until I can turn break off physics on without making my computer cry and attempt suicide...again.

 

[Comradecolonel]

I've just stopped building because I'm tired of spending time building ships that don't do much. Until there is actual gameplay I'm at most just going to focus on RP type builds. Combat is just boring as hell right now. The only way to have a good fight is if you 1v1 somebody in the same sector. Other than that the game just fails to deliver any other sort experience. My trade freighters are still sitting in the docks, and my racers are right next to them. Mining is a joke because whats the point in mining if you have no desire to use the resources to build anything. Everything else is lifeless and dull.

I realize bringing this up is beating a dead horse, but I think it speaks to why so many people have been frustrated lately. Starmade when you play it feels like it has unlimited potential. After trying many things you realize how far the game still has to go to meet a lot of that potential. I remember when there was more a variety of players in this game. People who like to make things of all shapes and sizes. People who loved skid racing, fighter battles, trading things, and more. Now it seems that the only people who have majorly stuck around are the hardcore builders. I think it really goes to show what is this game is worth doing and what is not.

I appreciate that there is still a decent following to this game but I feel that opinions like alterintel 's should not be swatted down with "it's alpha stop whining" comments. I think that the playerbase has every right to express how they feel about the current game, specifically because it's still at such an early stage. I think it is a shame if most players feel they cannot express themselves on this forum. That their opinions are either ignored or dismissed is never a good sign. It will mean that a certain array of opinions will be the only one that the devs really see.

That being said I like the job that DukeofRealms has done to keep us informed. I realize that the devs are working as hard as they can to get this game moving. I think as long as we can continue to have open and honest feedback that is well communicated to the devs, we can work toward making Starmade a real full fledged game.

 

[jayman38]

...
Planet overhaul, current planets are being scrapped, in favour of a new system. Massive performance improvements expected. We suspect the "design" of the newer planets will be more appealing to the player base.
...
Universe update planning.
...

Woot woot! Planet overhaul! I love that news.

 

[KiloZulu]

Well, the crew update has never been scheduled as the "next" major update. Not sure where you're hearing this from, NPC factions have been planned and worked on for a very long time, but not Crew. NPC Factions, universe update, planets, AI overhaul, fleets, shipyard fixes, audio engine, sound track and SFX have all been scheduled before Crew. There's been a miscommunication/misunderstanding from us or rumour spreading from community members if Crew is widely believed to be "around the corner".

I'm just going to say it right here and now, we don't have any "solid" plans for Crew, it's not in our current development focus. Planning for it hasn't even begun. It takes us a couple of months at minimum to plan for a system like that.

I'd say there's been a gross miscommunication, then. Bench stated back in an October Devblog that NPC crew had already by that time received a lot of thought, and work was ongoing. It was part of the "RP Season focus," and was a few months away from implementation. NPC crew recruitment, characteristics, management, and crew positions were all discussed.

I'm feeling a bit Trumped.

 

[Edymnion]

Now it seems that the only people who have majorly stuck around are the hardcore builders.

Well, in all due fairness, what did you expect?

Building is functional. Systems are functional. We have shipyards to aid with building. Schine has put a LOT of focus and effort into getting the bones of the game good and strong before they start trying to put flesh on them.

If hardcore building is the main thing available, kinda makes sense that its the hardcore builders the game has retained for the long haul.

And today's hardcore builders are going to be tomorrow's Starmade gods because of the massive headstart they've had in learning how to build AWESOME looking stuff.

 

[Scypio]

That was an exploit. Exploits get fixed without warning. Expect that. (That is the one practical reason not to use exploits, aside from server rules)

Just so you know, docked thrusts are still used and useful.

 

[Ithirahad]

If it happens, it's at least months before it becomes default. Most of the work involved with overhauls (Power) are planning and balancing, very little development time in comparison. Planning and balancing is where the community can actually help, and so, we've decided to open up that process.




Well, the crew update has never been scheduled as the "next" major update. Not sure where you're hearing this from, NPC factions have been planned and worked on for a very long time, but not Crew. NPC Factions, universe update, planets, AI overhaul, fleets, shipyard fixes, audio engine, sound track and SFX have all been scheduled before Crew. There's been a miscommunication/misunderstanding from us or rumour spreading from community members if Crew is widely believed to be "around the corner".

I'm just going to say it right here and now, we don't have any "solid" plans for Crew, it's not in our current development focus. Planning for it hasn't even begun. It takes us a couple of months at minimum to plan for a system like that.

StarMade Development Direction I think people still have this in their heads.

What are we working on right now?

• Changing our release cycle to allow development to work more efficiently, and to reduce major bugs in release builds. Current release cycle is not realistic, has left development rushing to meet deadlines, leaving serious bugs in release builds. Which then eat up the next release cycle, leaving even less time, more rush.
• Addressing major/release blocking bugs currently in release. Some of which have been reported for weeks.
• Planet overhaul, current planets are being scrapped, in favour of a new system. Massive performance improvements expected. We suspect the "design" of the newer planets will be more appealing to the player base.
• Soundtrack, Danki is working on creating the complete StarMade soundtrack.
• Audio Engine planning, we're currently figuring out how best to address this.
• Writing documentation for the community to have an understanding of where development is heading and what we hope to achieve with StarMade.
• AI overhaul planning and general discussion, how to best address this issue, what needs to be done before this to avoid redoing it again in the near future.
• Trailer planning, scripts, audio and scheduling.
• UI improvement discussions. How to make it easier to get into StarMade, locating common issues new users experience.
• Discussing how to create and plan for a streamlined tutorial.
• Power overhaul proposal version 2.0.
• Documenting current issues/lacking features with systems in the game now and how to address them. Additionally, how the power overhaul if done, would affect these systems.
• Universe update planning.
• Planning and discussion on the best way we can cover lots of development ground to hit beta in a reasonable timeframe.

Plus other things, but this should give a general sense.

The two updates holding you back aren't coming for at least months, one of them (Power) might not even happen at all.

Yay, news! It's good to hear the status of the AI overhaul and the planet stuff. This would have made a nice "Mini-dev blog" - I'm sure that people are wondering what's going on following all the mentions of new features and then only getting these small updates.