StarMade News - November 9th 2015

[godmars]

Asteroids? You navigate around asteroids and such. Or does that simple fact escape you.

In the early- to mid-22nd century, Earth Cargo Service freighters were commonly equipped with low-yield turrets, often referred to as "popguns", designed only to break up asteroids and meteors. Earth Y class freighters were typically equipped with a single plasma cannon and J class ships with two turrets. The captains of these freighters, however, would often upgrade the cannons for more powerful ones the first chance they got. To achieve a weapons lock, the target had to be within a nine kilometer range. (ENT: "Fortunate Son", "Horizon")

 

[GRHayes]

You do realize we're getting AI fleets, right? Order a couple corvettes and a half dozen fighters to defend you.

And I doubt people will just be wildly shooting at cargo ships, because then that cargo would be destroyed. My freighters are going to be equipped with a strong jump drive, overdrive, and a high T:W ratio. You are not catching it unless you've got a massive inhibitor array and a hell of a lot of stop weaponry.

It doesn't matter what type of ships you have protecting it if a single shot can make it through and cause damage. All it takes is 1 missile or one shot to make it through.

If a person is playing single player how big of fleet are they going to have starting off? How about if you just join a server how big of fleet will you have unless you join an already established group?

Wow talk about speculation overload. All we've said is that it's coming up, so you'll need to allow for cargo space and how we'll be rolling out the transition between the current storage system and more limited storage per stack. We haven't spoken about specific numbers or any other specifics so everyone take a breath and relax a little.

If you have any major questions you can save it for the Q&A, if you have concerns you're more than welcome to message me about them. Otherwise you can speculate but remember that we're not designing a system to totally cripple every ship. Balancing will come with it as will other improvements to systems like thrusters etc. but we need systems that affect mass to go in first before finalising the thrust balance. Otherwise we'd be doing it twice.

We haven't shared specifically about how stacks will be limited, whether by mass or by volume or some other arbitrary number.

You are right Bench not much of a hard nailed down fact has been said.

However, just the simple fact that a stack is going to have one item. Tells us part but will a cargo container hold multiple stacks. How much space will it take to equal what a ship currently might pick up in stacks from fighting a few fighters. Given that you could end up with many stacks with single blocks in them under the current system that isn't much of a problem but given the system described that could be 1 item becomes 1 cargo container or maybe who knows how many stacks can be put in a cargo container.

No matter which way it comes out this system will end up making a mess out of current systems.
[DOUBLEPOST=1447130986,1447130255][/DOUBLEPOST]Putting a so called popgun on a ship is a moronic idea which is why it continues to the captains upgrading them. The fact some ass clown didn't realize the danger of shooting at an asteroid shows the moron wasn't even up on what current space level technology knows.

If you took the time to use even more logic. Let me ask this question. In sea going vessels are their more combat ships or freighters?
Do you think there is any ways near enough combat ships to protect each and every freighter on the waters? Hopefully you got the sense to say no.
So then assume you have a space fairing civilization. Even if it was militaristic like the Klingons do you think they would have more combat vessels or freight? They would still have more freight no matter what the societies structure is because it would still be needed as support. There is never ever enough military vessels to protect each freighter so expecting freight carrying ships to have an escort is just not thinking clearly.
We can get away with sending trucks down the road in this country unarmed because their is little chance of hostile action. Go to the middle east and depending on what is being sent they go in convoys with escorts.

This game would lend it self more closely to being in a war zone.

 

[Aynslei]

No matter which way it comes out this system will end up making a mess out of current systems.

You need to take a pill and calm the hell down son. Breath in and breath out.

I am going to throw some hypothetical numbers at you. A 22*22*22 box of hull has 8000 cubic meters of space. Now I am going to make a wild low-ball assumption for a worst case scenario that one stack(type of block) is equal to 1 cubic meter. Then I will assume that 100 (major low-ball here) of a given item fits in one stack.
That tiny 20*20*20 space now has room for 8000 stacks, with a total cargo space for 800,000 individual items. (with one stack = 1 block and 1 stack = 100 items)
If the item stack could hold 1000 of an item, the cargo volume would be 8 million(!!?!!).

I really don't think cargo is going to be a major issue. Ships have tools to run, they have tools to stop missiles, they can drop drones and swarmers, and they can be tanks.(Plus every single weapon a warship uses) Unless you can give some actual idea of how you think this will ruin the game beyond keeping Tardis level space warping technology I would like to hear it.

 

[Bench]

You are right Bench not much of a hard nailed down fact has been said.

However, just the simple fact that a stack is going to have one item. Tells us part but will a cargo container hold multiple stacks. How much space will it take to equal what a ship currently might pick up in stacks from fighting a few fighters. Given that you could end up with many stacks with single blocks in them under the current system that isn't much of a problem but given the system described that could be 1 item becomes 1 cargo container or maybe who knows how many stacks can be put in a cargo container.

No matter which way it comes out this system will end up making a mess out of current systems.

I'll say now one stack doesn't equal one cargo crate. The capacity of each cargo crate will be more per crate than a storage block on its own. We'll obviously balance it appropriately so that both have value without being too OP but regardless of the specific numbers the amount of stacks you can store in a cargo crate will always be greater than with a storage block. For example (and this is pure speculation on how it could work, as it all depends on what schema and the team conclude on adding in) if one storage block holds say 12 slots in its inventory for stacks, then one cargo area (and therefore cargo crate) might add an additional 16 or 20. The thing to remember is that cargo is treated as an extension of storage blocks. So all the linking to salvages, factories, shipyards, etc will all be possible through linking to a storage block that has a cargo area attached.

 

[Crimson-Artist]

one question i though of is is the cargo system designed to push ship designing towards being primarily done in shipyards?

atm we can build ships in space with ease since our inventory space can hold nearly every block we could ever need. with stack limits building in space might become a hassle as we could potentially only hold a 4th of what we can hold now.

now shipyards can make use of the creative mode inventory so block counts are irrelevant which would mean that players would be more likely to design their ships at them.

however this also brings up the case with station/planet construction. those still rely on the player's inventory and player are using real blocks, not holograms, to build them. so unless we have some way to tap into additional inventory space we're gonna be making a lot of visits to a cargo container to get more blocks.

I believe my idea of constructor ships that can tap into the build modes of another ship/entity while still making use of its own storage space would be an apt solution.

 

[Bench]

one question i though of is is the cargo system designed to push ship designing towards being primarily done in shipyards?

atm we can build ships in space with ease since our inventory space can hold nearly every block we could ever need. with stack limits building in space might become a hassle as we could potentially only hold a 4th of what we can hold now.

now shipyards can make use of the creative mode inventory so block counts are irrelevant which would mean that players would be more likely to design their ships at them.

however this also brings up the case with station/planet construction. those still rely on the player's inventory and player are using real blocks, not holograms, to build them. so unless we have some way to tap into additional inventory space we're gonna be making a lot of visits to a cargo container to get more blocks.

I believe my idea of constructor ships that can tap into the build modes of another ship/entity while still making use of its own storage space would be an apt solution.

We're aware of this issue and have ideas in place that should tackle it.

 

[alterintel]

We’ll be hosting a LIVE Dev Q&A session on Twitch on Sunday 15th November at 1:00pm PST (or 9:00pm GMT)

Well darn, this translates to 2am Monday for me. To bad It's not on Saturday, I wouldn't mind staying up for it if it was on Saturday, but I can't stay up until 3 or 4 am on a work night.

Oh Well... I guess I'll catch it on you tube later.

 

[Jchung]

Even with fighter escort it wouldn't be putting crap in a ship that has no defense capability. It would need adequate shielding and hull protection and at a minimum point defense turrets for missiles. Other wise you are just going to let enemies shoot and destroy any cargo you have. These ships will be massive targets. Power is already a sorry system in this game.

You know what forget it. Simply I quit. I'm deleting game now I see no point in wasting a minute more on it.

I assume if you are using fighters escort, the cargo probably isn't that important. People wouldn't protect their cargo with just fighters if it's their main storage, there is going to be corvettes, assault frigates, cruisers and battleships ect. The most cargo there is the more defended it is, also the cargo ship would have weapons and shields on it, so it's not just a giant target.

I believe this would also encourage more RPing with players as pirates invading trade runs when that is implemented and would give a reason to attack people for resources.

 

[raeleus]

Where is the "Start with Beta Launcher" option in Steam? I'm playing the StarMade Demo on Windows. When I hit the Play button in Steam, it starts the stinkin' old launcher. There are no prompts and no options that I can find anywhere. :-(

 

[Bench]

Where is the "Start with Beta Launcher" option in Steam? I'm playing the StarMade Demo on Windows. When I hit the Play button in Steam, it starts the stinkin' old launcher. There are no prompts and no options that I can find anywhere. :-(

Right+Click on the game and select Properties go to Local Files and click Browse Local Files, then you should see "starmade-launcher.exe".

 

[raeleus]

Right+Click on the game and select Properties go to Local Files and click Browse Local Files, then you should see "starmade-launcher.exe".

Only the old launcher is in there...

-edit: Steam is updated and everything, btw.

 

[Bench]

Only the old launcher is in there...

-edit: Steam is updated and everything, btw.

View attachment 18201

hmmmm weird.

 

[raeleus]

hmmmm weird.

Edit: damned smartphone... I'll backup my game and delete my local files tomorrow night to see if that makes a difference.

 

[Mariux]

It's only a 50% increase from $10 to $15.

However, wasn't $15 supposed to be the final price when we entered beta?

What if we're about to?

 

[DukeofRealms]

What if we're about to?

Nope, we're not.

 

[Mariux]

Nope, we're not.

Okay.

 

[Lag]

We're devising ways that you will be able to transfer between docked entities so you can move cargo via docked entities on rails.

As a builder who primarily focuses on utility ships and logic I am stoked for these changes!

 

[kupu]

Spoiler: ha

Happeh?

Beat me to it. Hahaha.

 

[Jananton]

Well, I do like how the intended cargo updates sound, this will open the path to freighters, trade routes and all those things that make survival play so much more interesting.

Certainly count me in coming sunday at 10pm (GMT + 1) local time. :D

Greets,

Jan

 

[Matt_Bradock]

I'll be honest, I'm not sure about this, Bench . I'll be the voice of doubt, the dude with the other perspective.

Mining and processing the mined goods is already a tedious business, especially with the bigger sector sizes each server's taking (to make space spacious and avoid multi-sector structures)
I definitely think this system should ONLY be implemented strictly ALONG with the cargo transfer ability between entities. If I run around a system for 3 hours to find and scoop up some mineable rocks, the LAST damn thing I want to do is spend another 1 hour going back and forth between my ship and the processing station's storage with the limited stack sizes.

It's weird to see how the modding community of such a small scale game as Minecraft went to simplify and automate mining and storage (almost every single major mod has some sort of automated mining and improved, compact storage) while Starmade, being on an almost incomparably larger scale, is going the opposite route.
This concept, if implemented, will make the steep learning curve even steeper. A factory setup will be exponentially more complicated (and bigger) with cargo storages having to be added to every single damn factory block (and ESPECIALLY to the capsule refinery every other factory block pulls the resources from) in order to make it possible to produce the quantities of hulls, thrusters, power blocks and other such massively needed blocks to build a proper ship.
I am aware of the direction you guys have been trying to limit ship and station sizes in multiple ways: the softcap on power reactors, the diminishing returns on thrusters, the damage modifier on system HP, the scarcity of blue asteroids desperately needed for shield blocks, the "buy blueprints with blocks" thing...
And now you drop this? Limiting stack size to a couple thousand blocks?

Congrats. This'll force players to simplify their designs even more.
The "buy with blocks" update already made it difficult for players who were trying to use nicely built, good looking, detailed ships (both exterior and interior) in a survival environment, because they had to run around getting all the different blocks and items making them so detailed. Inventories already couldn't hold all the different block types regardless of stack size.
Now you want to limit inventory even more, thus building and filling designs or blueprints up in survival servers will be even more difficult.
Which brings me to the question, when was the last time any of you did anything outside admin mode/creative mode in your own game? I have only seen kupu ever play in survival, and I have a deep respect for him because of that.

Tread lightly, because gathering and manufacturing resources is already the most boring and inconvenient part of the game, and if you complicate the main creative aspect of it (building) even more, people will not even get to the other fun part (fighting) as they won't risk losing vessels they put several man-hours into building (in creative, most likely) and even more man-hours spawning in survival. At a point, you'll start losing more players than you gain, because new payers will just give up, being overwhelmed by the learning curve. I have seen it happen multiple times, despite our most sincere attempts to support those newbies (I never refused helping out a new player on a server with advice and even some resources). How complicated is overcomplicated? You have to ask yourselves that question.

If anything, you should do something similar to what Applied Energistics did to Minecraft in the ME storage system. Instead of limiting stack sizes, the storage capacity was limited by the number of different item types the storage unit would hold, and the maximum amount of items total it would hold. here, the limit should be the TOTAL amount of items you can fit into a storage, not the number of different item types. Let's say one cargo crate can hold 10K blocks total, in any combination. That could be 10K basic grey hull, or 2K grey, 2K black, 2K white, 2K glass and 2K red, or any other combination.
I could get behind that.

P.S. The question "How well is it scalable" must also be asked of each new feature. Not just ingame but in terms of performance and stability. I have noticed not once, that a new feature implemented revealed a lot of bugs after release only, when the major servers with a formidable player count took it to large scale. The most obvious case of this was the rail update, where ships at first couldn't even save into blueprints properly with more than 12 rail docked entities on them, and having multiple rail turrets caused tremendous lag for a good while even after the blueprints were fixed. (They still cause serious performance issues when entering the collision detection box of another entity that has rail turrets)