Appeal to the Council: A Noisy Niche

[IG-1000]

Uhhhhhh wtf are you talking about? That's not Vanilla Minecraft, I wasn't going to say anything about you using Mods but I have to now.

I mean really HTF are you going to sit there and say how awesome minecraft is and you ain't even playing Vanilla, your using Mods. I guess Minecraft really isn't all that exciting enough for you after all. You are talking about all the wonderful features that MC has and your using Mods it's not even the actual Vanilla form of the game. You cannot compare a moded version of a game to a non moded version of a game, that's not even a fair comparison. I am just in utter shock at how you think you can sit there and talk about how MC is so much better than Starmade and how there is so much more to MC than Starmade and how MC is so much more harder than Starmade and your not even talking about Minecraft Minecraft your talking about an experience that was achieved using Mods, just wtf dude......

I think you need to go back to playing Vanilla MC and then come back and tell us how amazing Vanilla MC is compared to Vanilla Starmade.....

 

[CaptainTaz]

I feel I should probably weigh in here.

As a person who bought starmade 2+ years ago loving it from the start... Every time I look at starmade now all I get is feelings of "meh..."

And that makes me sad, because it has so much potential.

Right now though, its just way too focused on building, without any feelings of progression or wonder. There's a few cool stations to gawk at (or get shot at by), a couple different planet types, a special spawning city or pyramid, and the occasional different star.

And that's about it.

As someone who really is not a good builder (see - TERRIBLE BUILDER) I hate building stuff in starmade. The system for building is great don't get me wrong. But I have no sense of style and when I see the garbage I build I don't want to play anymore. (borrowing other people's stuff from the dock just doesn't feel satisfying either, so don't even.)

On top of that, there's nothing to explore... Derelicts only exist for ambiance and have no point otherwise (Nothing to loot, no puzzles to solve/find...), pirate stations are hard fights for no rewards anymore (I miss the old ones where I could fight and then loot em... both blocks and chests...), and the trading guild doesn't even do much besides sell you stuff you can make just as easily for free, making credits all but worthless in player economies...

NPC factions may be a decent distraction for a while. but quests are why I quit Starbound and MMOs... after a while they were just repeats with different names and places, and once you knew the fastest and safest way to complete them, they got boring fast...

I want to see Starmade go in a direction where people who can't build can still have fun and enjoy themselves. I'd be content if a homebase could have micromanagement things to do (such as optimizing systems or manning turrets during pirate raids that are specially triggered by your presence.) Or a faction would recruit you them and allow you the opportunity to prove yourself and rank up, and obtain ships pre-built for your rank. (specialties like support corps or patrol officers could be a thing too.)

Maybe encourage players to play the role of a merchant, buying and selling supplies to make profits, purchasing new ships with faster engines and bigger cargo holds. Or maybe get send out to discover treasure or scout a pirate base without being detected.

Hell, I'd love to be able to act as a crew member instead of a pilot, running to the defense turrets or managing where the ship power is going. I recently saw a multiplayer game (EDIT: It's called Pulsar, lost colony) where the entire premise is that players are each part of the crew, and not everyone is the pilot leading the charge. People managed the research, redirected power, manned the guns, etc. I don't want to see all that just automated by the crew system and plain old system blocks...

Another way of playing that feels fun to me at least, is management. Managing farms, goods, supplies, fighter bays, anything really. There could be a place where you can be hired by a faction, for instance, to manage their botany labs. Weather its to keep the lights on while managing a bad generator, or making repairs to damaged equipment. Or you could be station security, watching for suspicious signals or ships.

All in all I just really want to see more non-ship-focused things happen with starmade. It has so much potential and I really want it to shine for everyone.

 

[IG-1000]

I used to make crappy ships too

But now my ships look more like this
Another Star Wars Inspired Ship
Still looks like Crap I know

It just takes time and practice.

 

[CaptainTaz]

I used to make crappy ships too

But now my ships look more like this
Another Star Wars Inspired Ship
Still looks like Crap I know

It just takes time and practice.

Below is the "Best" ship I have ever made in my 2 years of play according to every single person I have ever shown it to. Look at your "crappy ships" and try to say that there's even any kind of ability to compare. There isn't.



It's a ripoff Y-wing and X-wing combined. Looks like crap, and barely works because of all the bullshit systems I have to deal with.

I don't WANT to build shit in starmade, because building in starmade is not fun. I HATE the managing of all the systems and having to remove good interior because I have to put more power/thrusters in the ship to make it even fly. In minecraft, building a house is as easy as "place blocks - done." Building a farm? "Chop trees/mine cobble, craft fences, place, done" Wanna build a ship in starmade? "Build the hull, put some systems in it, test, put the interior in, test, oh now the ship doesn't have the systems needed to move or survive a single shot."

It's not the fun kind of tedium that feels rewarding. And even if I just made ship shells and didn't care about movement, I am not an artsy person. at all. I cannot design, I'm NOT original, I just suck. And I've come to terms with that.

I don't want to be told "You'll get better." I want to be told "Well if you're not a big fan of building, there's X Y and Z you can do instead."

 

[Xtremesonicboom]

My stance on fuel, O2, etc. is, go ahead and put it in, just let me turn it off if I chose too. If people who don't want to play with that stuff can't edit a config file, then they have bigger problems. They shouldn't go around trying to limit the game's appeal.

 

[Valiant70]

I feel I should probably weigh in here.

As a person who bought starmade 2+ years ago loving it from the start... Every time I look at starmade now all I get is feelings of "meh..."

And that makes me sad, because it has so much potential.

Right now though, its just way too focused on building, without any feelings of progression or wonder. There's a few cool stations to gawk at (or get shot at by), a couple different planet types, a special spawning city or pyramid, and the occasional different star.

And that's about it.

As someone who really is not a good builder (see - TERRIBLE BUILDER) I hate building stuff in starmade. The system for building is great don't get me wrong. But I have no sense of style and when I see the garbage I build I don't want to play anymore. (borrowing other people's stuff from the dock just doesn't feel satisfying either, so don't even.)

On top of that, there's nothing to explore... Derelicts only exist for ambiance and have no point otherwise (Nothing to loot, no puzzles to solve/find...), pirate stations are hard fights for no rewards anymore (I miss the old ones where I could fight and then loot em... both blocks and chests...), and the trading guild doesn't even do much besides sell you stuff you can make just as easily for free, making credits all but worthless in player economies...

NPC factions may be a decent distraction for a while. but quests are why I quit Starbound and MMOs... after a while they were just repeats with different names and places, and once you knew the fastest and safest way to complete them, they got boring fast...

I want to see Starmade go in a direction where people who can't build can still have fun and enjoy themselves. I'd be content if a homebase could have micromanagement things to do (such as optimizing systems or manning turrets during pirate raids that are specially triggered by your presence.) Or a faction would recruit you them and allow you the opportunity to prove yourself and rank up, and obtain ships pre-built for your rank. (specialties like support corps or patrol officers could be a thing too.)

Maybe encourage players to play the role of a merchant, buying and selling supplies to make profits, purchasing new ships with faster engines and bigger cargo holds. Or maybe get send out to discover treasure or scout a pirate base without being detected.

Hell, I'd love to be able to act as a crew member instead of a pilot, running to the defense turrets or managing where the ship power is going. I recently saw a multiplayer game (EDIT: It's called Pulsar, lost colony) where the entire premise is that players are each part of the crew, and not everyone is the pilot leading the charge. People managed the research, redirected power, manned the guns, etc. I don't want to see all that just automated by the crew system and plain old system blocks...

Another way of playing that feels fun to me at least, is management. Managing farms, goods, supplies, fighter bays, anything really. There could be a place where you can be hired by a faction, for instance, to manage their botany labs. Weather its to keep the lights on while managing a bad generator, or making repairs to damaged equipment. Or you could be station security, watching for suspicious signals or ships.

All in all I just really want to see more non-ship-focused things happen with starmade. It has so much potential and I really want it to shine for everyone.

DukeofRealms this fellow pretty much said it all. Most of the player base is composed of shipwrights. I see some things in the works that should help to make the rest of the game interesting, but I'm concerned future development might end up being less amazing than it could be simply because of the majority voice on the dock that hates micromanagement and maintenance. The fact that there are whole games devoted to that sort of thing demonstrates its appeal.

I would suggest approaching player base appeal in terms of categories, something like this:

• Builders/shipwrights, the ones the game is tailored to now
• PVPers, who will configure just about any iteration of starmade into something they enjoy
• Strategists, who are just starting to get what they want with fog of war and the NPC update
  
• Adventurers, who will need some dungeon crawling in addition to the already-planned universe changes
• First-person shooters, a combination of PVPers and Adventurers who want to get out of the ship and do things
  
• Micromanagers, who need the stuff shipwrights find annoying
• Newbies who have no idea what they're doing yet

I really believe Starmade has something for all of these people, but only if the influence of shipwrights doesn't ultimately marginalize other aspects of the game. That's why I created this thread in the first place. I wanted to point out this potential issue so it doesn't go unnoticed.

 

[DukeofRealms]

majority voice on the dock that hates micromanagement and maintenance.

I really believe Starmade has something for all of these people, but only if the influence of shipwrights doesn't ultimately marginalize other aspects of the game.

I wasn't going to reply again; I prefer to keep vision and gameplay discussion to schema . I'm of the firm belief that what we implement will speak for itself far better than I ever could.

We have something planned for all these playstyles (apart from FPS, StarMade isn't Call of Duty), it just happens that ship building is the core of the game, everything else extends from it (development and gameplay wise). So, yes, from the very beginning we've had to focus on that "playstyle" not because of the community, but because it is the literal core of the game.

I think I've said it before, but I'll say it again, the community doesn't change our direction of the game. We know where we're going, we know what we want and we know how issues that have been brought up in here will be addressed (for the most part). The community might influence how we go about implementing that vision, through suggestions that provide a better path to our goal than what we initially thought. But we won't read opinions on here or elsewhere and suddenly think, you know what, scrap our previous vision, let's make Counter Strike space edition instead. Yes, we want to keep our current playerbase who appreciate the game for what it is now, around. That doesn't mean we don't want to move forward with our plans.

From what I understand, you're concerned about the "influence of shipwrights" in this community, which results in their influence on the game. If that is the case, you have nothing to worry about. We're already moving forward to other aspects of gameplay, most noticeably the NPC update, AI, Crew and Quests. It's not because we "suddenly realised that we needed to cater to different playstyles", we're now in a position where we can finally start making a game. We view StarMade in its current state as the bare bone foundations for a game. An empty, lifeless universe. We now want to move onto creating a living, breathing one. A universe that can support not only builders, but a multitude of different playstyles. As always, we will provide config options to modify features or completely disable them. I'm also a staunch supporter of a Modding API, having worked on mods for games in the past. If I do happen to get my way, community members will be able to shape the game into whatever they want.

Will the end product of StarMade be for everyone? No. There will be a few people here in this community that find the game's direction is not for them. You can't please everyone. In turn, some who might have passed off the game as not for them previously might change their mind because of it.

Should you be concerned about a vocal minority or majority influencing the game's core development? No.

TL;DR: Your concerns are recognised, but the "noisy niche" will not change our vision for the game.

What the community actually influences...

• Bugs we should prioritise over other bugs or features
• Balancing
• Additions to or reworks of features that help us achieve our vision
• Feature prioritisation (not often)
• Anything community orientated (forums, wikis, bug reporter, competitions...)
• Plus more stuff

What the community does not influence...

• Development vision (end goal)
• Major features (features that we're going to add because they are integral to our vision). The community may influence the implementation, but not the existence of it.
• Attention to untapped playstyles/markets
• What schema has for dinner
• Plus more stuff

__________________________________________________________________________

What I am about to say could be a lie! Please note, that what I'm about to talk about has a very good chance of not actually happening the way I say it might. Or, happen at all.
Lie: Something a member of Schine says that is not set in stone yet.

What we have been discussing (as in, it's an idea we're looking into) for quests (as far as I'm aware) is a full default storyline, which would be optional. Not just random events that happen from time to time, but an actual storyline to follow, where each decision would affect the player's experience. In this scenario, we'd be using the same tools we'd make available to players so they could create their own "game" inside of ours, their own storyline. The main reason for creating our own default storyline would be so we would know what tools community members would need to create their own. We want StarMade to be the "ultimate space sandbox", and completely flexible, comprehensive and customisable Quest tools is part of that.

But I digress, at this point, we're heading into murky waters, dream territory. What I've directly said above could easily change later today, tomorrow, next week or next year. If it does happen, it'll be one of, if not the last "core" feature implemented. A basic mission/quest system (random events) would happen first.

 

[Jojomo]

Or a faction would recruit you them and allow you the opportunity to prove yourself and rank up, and obtain ships pre-built for your rank. (specialties like support corps or patrol officers could be a thing too.)

I don't actually know it to be a fact, but SURELY there are factions that do this? From what I've seen in faction recruitment posts, larger factions separate their builders/designers and their combat staff.

 

[Raisinbat]

We have something planned for all these playstyles (apart from FPS, StarMade isn't Call of Duty), it just happens that ship building is the core of the game, everything else extends from it (development and gameplay wise). So, yes, from the very beginning we've had to focus on that "playstyle" not because of the community, but because it is the literal core of the game.

What do you mean by shipbuilding? I love making mechanical ships that do things in the game, but all the recent additions only emphasize cosmetics, and things like gatling guns, logic controlled drones or rail based cargo transfer systems wont work out of sector, so whatever your vision is it doesn't appear compatible with mechanical ship design.

I think I've said it before, but I'll say it again, the community doesn't change our direction of the game. We know where we're going, we know what we want and we know how issues that have been brought up in here will be addressed (for the most part). The community might influence how we go about implementing that vision, through suggestions that provide a better path to our goal than what we initially thought. But we won't read opinions on here or elsewhere and suddenly think, you know what, scrap our previous vision, let's make Counter Strike space edition instead. Yes, we want to keep our current playerbase who appreciate the game for what it is now, around. That doesn't mean we don't want to move forward with our plans.

And why the fuck are these plans secret??? This is a major point of contention on the boards, nobody has a clue what you want the game to be!

From what I understand, you're concerned about the "influence of shipwrights" in this community, which results in their influence on the game. If that is the case, you have nothing to worry about. We're already moving forward to other aspects of gameplay, most noticeably the NPC update, AI, Crew and Quests. It's not because we "suddenly realised that we needed to cater to different playstyles", we're now in a position where we can finally start making a game. We view StarMade in its current state as the bare bone foundations for a game. An empty, lifeless universe. We now want to move onto creating a living, breathing one. A universe that can support not only builders, but a multitude of different playstyles. As always, we will provide config options to modify features or completely disable them. I'm also a staunch supporter of a Modding API, having worked on mods for games in the past. If I do happen to get my way, community members will be able to shape the game into whatever they want.

Again, point one; "shipwright" doesn't include mechanical ship design. I don't think crew or quests are going to appease the people currently complaining, but maybe thats just because i personally couldn't care less.Hell the only person in this thread who seems to want quests is IG-1000 and he clearly already loves the game! What keeps getting brought up in the forums are mechanical problems with offline PvP, lack of complexity in ship design (again, doesn't bother cosmetic designers, but every mechanical designer i've spoken to is destitute at this point.) and lack of PROGRESSION ingame. There's extremely little you can do to advance your ability to create and control ships, because everything is instantly free. None of the things you've mentioned does anything about these concerns.

What we have been discussing (as in, it's an idea we're looking into) for quests (as far as I'm aware) is a full default storyline, which would be optional. Not just random events that happen from time to time, but an actual storyline to follow, where each decision would affect the player's experience. In this scenario, we'd be using the same tools we'd make available to players so they could create their own "game" inside of ours, their own storyline. The main reason for creating our own default storyline would be so we would know what tools community members would need to create their own. We want StarMade to be the "ultimate space sandbox", and completely flexible, comprehensive and customisable Quest tools is part of that.

I think the reason minecraft keeps popping up in this thread is because there are no quests or story in minecraft, it simply does not need it. Why do you?

Starmade seems to be heading down the same path as no mans sky. All this questing, faction and exploration shit are just superficial tat that's slapped on top of the game without impacting it in any meaningful way. NMS wasn't a disaster just because they lied, it's a thoroughly boring load of crap, because nothing you do in that game matters. It's the same reason terraria is an amazing game and starbound is garbage, even though starbound without question has more tat. The combat is sluggish and doesn't utilize terrain manipulation at all, your own progression is really just keycards and the game when you start and at the highest dificulty worlds is completely identical because your own advancement is mirrored perfectly by the enemies.

And as far as being customizable, i forget how many pages of customization options are in openTTD but none of them will change that the best way to make money is hauling crap from one end of the map to the other, because the profit mechanic is too stupid. Having good mechanics should be much more important than having customizable ones.

Uhhhhhh wtf are you talking about? That's not Vanilla Minecraft, I wasn't going to say anything about you using Mods but I have to now.

I think you need to go back to playing Vanilla MC and then come back and tell us how amazing Vanilla MC is compared to Vanilla Starmade.....

Minecraft has mods. Starmade does not. Point minecraft.

My stance on fuel, O2, etc. is, go ahead and put it in, just let me turn it off if I chose too. If people who don't want to play with that stuff can't edit a config file, then they have bigger problems. They shouldn't go around trying to limit the game's appeal.

Not limiting the game's appeal is what's currently limiting the game's appeal. Freedom is the antithesis of progression.

Would it bother you if fuel and O2 weren't added to creative mode, and what do you want to do in the game?

I would suggest approaching player base appeal in terms of categories, something like this:

• Builders/shipwrights, the ones the game is tailored to now
• PVPers, who will configure just about any iteration of starmade into something they enjoy
• Strategists, who are just starting to get what they want with fog of war and the NPC update
  
• Adventurers, who will need some dungeon crawling in addition to the already-planned universe changes
• First-person shooters, a combination of PVPers and Adventurers who want to get out of the ship and do things
  
• Micromanagers, who need the stuff shipwrights find annoying
• Newbies who have no idea what they're doing yet

Builders aren't just builders! I think this breakdown is pretty flawed because a lot of people fall into several of those, and there's too much room for differences within them. Like i said, builders have at least 2 variations, of which some fall into both: cosmetic / rp builders and mechanical builders. Game only caters to first.

Think critically you're also missing crafting/industry from the game, and i don't think anyone enjoys micromanagement .

 

[IG-1000]

Minecraft has mods. Starmade does not. Point minecraft.

Are you F****** serious right now mate?
That's your justification for comparing a modded game to a non modded game.....

I'm done with your stupidity

 

[kupu]

And why the fuck are these plans secret?

A simple reason is creative freedom.
Another is to avoid locking into features that could prove technically unfeasible or fail during development.

For the sake of all parties involved, this is a good thing in my eyes.

 

[Raisinbat]

A simple reason is creative freedom.
Another is to avoid locking into features that could prove technically unfeasible or fail during development.

but

Additions to or reworks of features that help us achieve our vision

which the community can't do when they don't know what that is.

For the sake of all parties involved, this is a good thing in my eyes.

I don't know if i want the game you're making anymore. I thought i knew what you were making, but maybe i'm wrong along with a lot of other people. For us this clearly is not a good thing.

Is it too much to ask for you to explain how you want combat to go between two ships in the release of starmade? To know what kind of systems our ships will be allowed to have. (Docked reactors not allowed, when are inline turrets or logic controlled weapons getting removed?) What kind of stations we can make? Are they just glorified garages or will we have actual incentives to build stuff?

I'm not asking for a complete feature list, but i'd like to know where starmade is going to sit on a scale between tekkit and no mans sky.

 

[kupu]

Is it too much to ask for you to explain how...

Quite possibly, yes. Your scenarios are almost so you can anticipate features and build for them before their arrival or suggest counters / additions before a solid development phase happens internally.

The former puts gameplay in an awkward limbo at risk of the previous pitfalls i mentioned. Technical feasibility or plans altering internally disrupting how you are playing currently.
The latter as outlined by Duke, is not something we actively seek the community to do before internal development has started. You quoted it yourself, "Additions or reworks of features".

Yes, maybe a slight catch 22 "help us achieve our vision", without knowing the full vision, but a good idea is a good idea. Let them flow unhindered by preconceptions. Having to say no to good ideas that are unfeasible is far more palatable than promising them all and achieving only a few.

I don't know if i want the game you're making anymore. I thought i knew what you were making, but maybe i'm wrong

This would be unfortunate, but it aptly showcases the reason we avoid divulging all internal developments.
Plans can change. Locking in a list of smaller features or behaviours like those you listed creates an expectation that may not be possible to uphold for a myriad of reasons.

We try and paint broad strokes where we can in Dev Blogs and the Dev Timeline. The game is also free during it's most turbulent development phase. But if i were to guess, a "what can i do in starmade in X years" won't be answered so concretely yet.

but i'd like to know where starmade is going to sit on a scale between tekkit and no mans sky.

The irony.

 

[Raisinbat]

Yes, maybe a slight catch 22 "help us achieve our vision", without knowing the full vision, but a good idea is a good idea. Let them flow unhindered by preconceptions. Having to say no to good ideas that are unfeasible is far more palatable than promising them all and achieving only a few.

A good idea in one game is not necessarily a good idea in another. Being able to make complex logic weapons in a game that focusses it's gameplay around small ship engagements is nice, but it's just an impractical performance killer in an RTS. Which one are you making; that's what i want to know. You have to have some priorities while making the game, what are those priorities??? If you're just going to spend a decade flopping around willy nilly adding dumb shit to the game like starbound did you'll end up with a pot of piss full of beachballs.

The irony.

Assuming you're complaining about no mans sky getting shit on for LYING ABOUT WHAT FEATURES WERE IN THE FINAL GAME. We're not asking you to LIE ABOUT THE FEATURES IN THE FINAL GAME. If a feature isn't feasible it's perfectly ok for you to say that it isn't feasible and strike it off the list; NMS was lying about having multiplayer even after the fucking game launched. I'm not even asking what features you plan to add, just what you're prioritizing, because every dev post i see wants to be the "ultimate sandbox" or some other nonsense X3 is a sandbox, and so is skyrim, but these games have NOTHING in common.

 

[DukeofRealms]

but it's just an impractical performance killer in an RTS

Yes, we have mentioned wanting to look into incorporating RTS elements into mid to late gameplay. Our priorities are not an RTS, hence why we are not able to discuss how it could work or if we will end up doing it. You've assumed that we will be doing it and we should have the answers. What is so wrong about us looking into incorporating RTS elements?

Starmade seems to be heading down the same path as no mans sky. All this questing, faction and exploration shit are just superficial tat that's slapped on top of the game without impacting it in any meaningful way.

No. No Man's Sky focuses on exploring planets and procedurally generated creatures. Ships, quests (events) and factions (don't really exist, but whatever) are just background filler. Procedural generation can only go so far, planets end up looking like slight variations of each other and creatures look unrealistic and unappealing. The fact that the main focus of NMS was done poorly and the lack of any additional worthwhile content is why it failed.

I didn't realise that you could build your own ships, space stations, fleets, create/join factions, fight with other players, see other players, follow a complete storyline, hire and manage a crew to man your ship in NMS? I must have missed all those features...

 

[Valiant70]

I love that you guys are willing to dialog with a handful of rude, cynical community members like us. No time now, but I'll be back later with another load of crap for you.

 

[Raisinbat]

Yes, we have mentioned wanting to look into incorporating RTS elements into mid to late gameplay. Our priorities are not an RTS, hence why we are not able to discuss how it could work or if we will end up doing it. You've assumed that we will be doing it and we should have the answers. What is so wrong about us looking into incorporating RTS elements?

My point was, depending on what you want the game to be ideas will be good if you go one way and bad if you go another, RTS was just an example. Your priorities are not an RTS. Ok. What are those priorities, or failing that, why are the priorities secret? Not features, just priorities.

 

[DukeofRealms]

My point was, depending on what you want the game to be ideas will be good if you go one way and bad if you go another, RTS was just an example. Your priorities are not an RTS. Ok. What are those priorities, or failing that, why are the priorities secret? Not features, just priorities.

Our current priorities are to flesh out core features and ensure that we can get them into the game. The primary focus being the NPC feature update. What we consider to be core features are NPCs, AI, Crew, Quests, Fleets and Factions. The next priority is balancing, changing default config values, modifying game behaviour slightly. RTS elements are an idea for higher level fleet management and AI v AI simulated combat. I understand that this brings concerns about moving away from the "strengths" of the game, it does need to be investigated as a possible addition to Fleet management.

I can mention what are core features, "vision", upcoming updates and what we're discussing. What I can't adequately talk about is the concrete, comprehensive general idea for what the game will be. I think this is what you really want to know. Simply because of the fact that this is schema's area and really needs to be said by him. Otherwise, I believe I'd being doing a disservice. I've mentioned this in a previous post; I'm all for sharing information and I will when I can, but when it comes to something large like this, I think it's better to have it properly formatted and from the developer himself. I've mentioned posting a blog update about general direction a few weeks ago and that is something we plan to post to go along with our timeline (which doesn't give much away). I believe schema has already done something like this a few years ago, so it's time to redo it and remind everyone where we're going.

 

[Ithirahad]

Would MicDoodle's approach that he used for oxygen sealers in Galacticraft be too computationally-heavy? The main concern would be stuff getting depressurized in battle, and usually all that takes is one weapon impact and a whole compartment goes without need for much additional computation.

Too complicated? Maybe, at the scales of stuff in StarMade, but that isn't the ultimate issue here. The problem is really that, if memory serves, Galacticraft uses specific airlock blocks (like our door blocks, kinda) to make an airtight seal that you can open and move through. We, on the other hand, have rail doors and other funky things, which would not work with the single-grid calculations Micdoodle uses. Forcing people to use force fields just to work with an air system isn't something you want to do, if it's possible to avoid it.

 

[Valiant70]

We have something planned for all these playstyles (apart from FPS, StarMade isn't Call of Duty)

Welp, better scrap boarding then. Without a decent amount of FPS mechanics work, boarding could ruin the game if it ever happens very much. If you have a humanoid avatar walking around in anything besides a glorified ship selection screen, you need a decent FPS engine under the hood to make things work. We don't need Call of Duty. We DO need our avatars to work and act similarly within the bigger picture. On the other hand, make the engine and mechanics work well enough, and the sandbox-junkie players may start pulling in their shooter friends from COD to lead their boarding parties.

Too complicated? Maybe, at the scales of stuff in StarMade, but that isn't the ultimate issue here. The problem is really that, if memory serves, Galacticraft uses specific airlock blocks (like our door blocks, kinda) to make an airtight seal that you can open and move through. We, on the other hand, have rail doors and other funky things, which would not work with the single-grid calculations Micdoodle uses. Forcing people to use force fields just to work with an air system isn't something you want to do, if it's possible to avoid it.

He has a block called an "oxygen sealer" that essentially fills a room with air blocks which you can breathe in. If starmade uses this approach, collisions with rail-docked entities could be used to define edges of chambers since you already can't place a block inside a rail-docked entity. If it were possible to make collision-like checks rather than checking the block data of the other entity, it might be easier to make it work. (Obviously I don't know enough about starmade's engine to tell for sure.) The potential problem with this is that you'd have to make checks repeatedly to see if it's still sealed, so Schema would have to come up with a way to trigger a check only if the rail entity is moved or damaged.

What I am about to say could be a lie! Please note, that what I'm about to talk about has a very good chance of not actually happening the way I say it might. Or, happen at all.
Lie: Something a member of Schine says that is not set in stone yet.

What we have been discussing (as in, it's an idea we're looking into) for quests (as far as I'm aware) is a full default storyline, which would be optional. Not just random events that happen from time to time, but an actual storyline to follow, where each decision would affect the player's experience. In this scenario, we'd be using the same tools we'd make available to players so they could create their own "game" inside of ours, their own storyline. The main reason for creating our own default storyline would be so we would know what tools community members would need to create their own. We want StarMade to be the "ultimate space sandbox", and completely flexible, comprehensive and customisable Quest tools is part of that.

But I digress, at this point, we're heading into murky waters, dream territory. What I've directly said above could easily change later today, tomorrow, next week or next year. If it does happen, it'll be one of, if not the last "core" feature implemented. A basic mission/quest system (random events) would happen first.

Now see, this is what I'd like to see more of. A warning that things may not go this way, and a bit of info on dream territory, and then updates on said dream territory from time to time so we can see how your vision is developing throughout the development of the game. We the players will be able to come up with better small feature ideas for you if we can see how they might affect things down the road.

No. No Man's Sky focuses on exploring planets and procedurally generated creatures. Ships, quests (events) and factions (don't really exist, but whatever) are just background filler. Procedural generation can only go so far, planets end up looking like slight variations of each other and creatures look unrealistic and unappealing. The fact that the main focus of NMS was done poorly and the lack of any additional worthwhile content is why it failed.

I didn't realise that you could build your own ships, space stations, fleets, create/join factions, fight with other players, see other players, follow a complete storyline, hire and manage a crew to man your ship in NMS? I must have missed all those features...

Compare your vision of a completed Starmade to NMS, then compare it to Minecraft. You can essentially do the same thing to both games - offer your own spin on most of the essential elements they have, and a lot more. There's room for SO MUCH VARIETY in this engine it's not even funny. "Ultimate Space Sandbox?" Yeah, you can definitely do that, but we need the survival gameplay and space-dungeon crawling to make that happen.