What happened to box dimension bonuses for power regen?

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    I had a ship with a really complex box dimension reactor that produced a great amount of power in a relatively compact space, and now it's being outdone by reactors of just spammed long lines of power blocks!
    What happened to skilled reactor building? Where's the ability to build a better ship rather than just building a bigger ship? I liked it when box dimension bonus actually mattered, because then players competed to see who could build the best reactor design and most easily power their ship, because believe me, it was a real challenge. Now any idiot who even barely knows how to play the game is able to build a ship just as good as me, and i've been honing my skills at reactor building for a year now. I'm disappointed...
     
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    Planr.
    Look in your blockconfig files. Block Behavior Configs.
    You can edit those with Notepad (Notepad++ works better though) And re-enable block dimensions for power gen.
    Don't complain unless you actually look for a fix.
    seriously you couldn't have just looked in the configs and toyed around with the settings? Really? You HAD to make a entire thread? And shaming NEW players because they're "just as good" at you at building ships? Ship are not all about stats, you know. Looks do matter.
    Peace.
     
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    His point is to make it so box dimensions for generators are enabled for the default config. So that his ship benefits on people's servers, not just on his PC locally.
     
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    Planr.
    Look in your blockconfig files. Block Behavior Configs.
    You can edit those with Notepad (Notepad++ works better though) And re-enable block dimensions for power gen.
    Don't complain unless you actually look for a fix.
    seriously you couldn't have just looked in the configs and toyed around with the settings? Really? You HAD to make a entire thread? And shaming NEW players because they're "just as good" at you at building ships? Ship are not all about stats, you know. Looks do matter.
    Peace.
    You really think I care about changing my own personal settings? No. Obviously I'm complaining about the default settings. This is a problem that needs to be fixed.
    I have no quarrel with newbie players themselves, but I do have a problem with there being no objective of skill when it comes to Starship building. The last thing this game needs is that stupid "bigger is better" mentality rather than "better design is better". And yes, I refuse to accept that any newbie who just got the game would be able to just as easily build a warship on par to the quality of the ones I make. It's simply ridiculous for it to be any other way.

    Regardless of the fact that I have been playing this game for a while, the last thing I want is to come off as is arrogant. So let me make it clear this issue we're dealing with here really isn't an issue of elitism, but rather a lack of a positive gameplay feature that could be implemented easily with a tweak to default settings. Think for a second about the possible applications and possibilities that can be achieved with a box dimension bonus system for power blocks. Countless different ways to get energy out of an area of space, which of course opens up the door for thinking about how to build reactors that fit into smaller spaces and give out the same energy as a bigger one. Building reactors should be more than just mindlessly slapping down blocks everywhere- it should be something to really enjoy, plan a reactor design for, and design a ship to fit.

    FYI looks play absolutely no role whatsoever when you get down to actual starship combat. other than intimidation against psychologically weak-minded cowardly opponents

    However I see what you're getting at. I suppose I must agree. This is a suggestion moreso than it is a bug. And I sure as hell want the game to be more fun, so the best way to do that is to have it politely in the right board. I've sent a request in to the mods for the thread to be moved.
     
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    I had a ship with a really complex box dimension reactor that produced a great amount of power in a relatively compact space, and now it's being outdone by reactors of just spammed long lines of power blocks!
    What happened to skilled reactor building? Where's the ability to build a better ship rather than just building a bigger ship? I liked it when box dimension bonus actually mattered, because then players competed to see who could build the best reactor design and most easily power their ship, because believe me, it was a real challenge. Now any idiot who even barely knows how to play the game is able to build a ship just as good as me, and i've been honing my skills at reactor building for a year now. I'm disappointed...
    While i can understand your lament about the lack of intricate reactor designs...
    Long lines are just very effective in long ships, that is using box dimensions, you can not add a power bonus for beautiful design (at least the implementation/balance would be horror ;)).
    You still have small/medium ships where you can shine with your power circuits.

    Remember the old 5*5*5 reactor design? I use that for interior design out of fond nostalgia...
     

    AndyP

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    First of all:
    Yes, I loved those box-dim-bonuses,
    and had great designs for most common shapes.

    Unfortunately:
    The old system had some unique drawbacks.

    You were forced to run through the process of calculating the current power,
    in the exactly same order as you did on the first placement, anything else,
    WOULD result in other values.

    Why?
    Any bonus was calculated on dimension and already installed power.

    Also, the formula had some 'sweet spots' that made it easy to exploit.
    3d generators were only effective in really small ships.
    Poles were 'default' up to ~1.000.000 power, above that,
    you were down so close to 'min power/block' that spamming 10x10x10 cubes had more benefit (timewise)
    than taking the time to copy that checkerboard style.

    Ever thought about the case what happens when you:
    Remove the 'starting poles' and keep the big boxes that did the way from 1M to 3M?
    Yes, you permanently killed your power efficiency,
    and could not recover the dimensional bonus
    unless you strip all the power out of the ship again.

    Now you have a full linear:
    Count blocks -> Calc power system.

    No more fiddling around with complex formulas to get 'rough' estimates
    that only work as expected UNITL you remove a single block of power generation on your ship/station.

    I love complex systems, even hard to learn, to make it a challenge to improve your ship, and have it not look ugly,
    but in this case and in my personal opinion:
    The cost for this challenge was just too high.

    - Andy
     

    NeonSturm

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    Logic blocks are a better challenge.

    Let's build some keyboard with activation blocks + displays and dig your computers not linked to the core deep inside your ship. You can access them with Passwords! :)
     
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    The compact power generation of the old 3D reactors might be a nice buff to make smaller ships more relevant again.

    rip
     

    NeonSturm

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    It will more likely be wasting your hulls for covering all that.

    I don't like stuff which breaks RP ships more than needed.
     
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    CyberTao

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    I don't like there not being any skill to Building. I would for one day, the title of "Shipwright" Meant more then just "Space-Artist".

    And if Power Nesting ruined your Interior, then you dont know how2Nest. Just saying o -o
     
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    It will more likely be wasting your hulls for covering all that.

    I don't like stuff which breaks RP ships more than needed.
    That's exactly the problem I have with these "long line reactors". You have to build them in long lines over all your stuff so it cuts things off. And if you want to try to avoid it, you gotta break out the complicated "octopus power tentacles" that wrap around the inside of your ship and choke the space for interiors. With the traditional box dimension system you could just build a cool reactor and be done with it.

    For a recap, the problem with the long lines system are:
    • requires practically no skill to use
    • makes shipbuilding more boring/monotonous
    • tends to choke interiors
    • narrows the range of capable ship advancedness
      • hurts combat variety/capabilities as people cannot find an edge when it comes to reactors for their smaller ships
    • favors unimaginative shipbuilding over creative thinking and designing

    I believe I have a probable theory as to what this change is all about really. I've actually been thinking this is very likely the reason why for a while now.
    The devs have noticed the amount of newbies who pick up the game and don't know how to build good reactors and would thus get their butt kicked when they went into combat with their ships. So, they made shipbuilding "simpler" and moreso so that "build it however you want, it will work just as good as anyone else's ship" so the newbies would have an easier time. Ergo, rather than going "i always die, this game is stupid/never playing it again", the newbies like it and play it more and eventually go to get a registered account. In the long term it can make schema more money, but at the same it makes players unhappy because combat becomes more of a match-to-match slugfest and people can't win other than building a bigger ship than the other guy. It's a highly obvious marketing ploy to increase game sales.

    Of course the obvious downside comes in that there isnt much differences seen in terms of advanced ship designs other than slapping on more stuff, which again ties in to the whole issue of giganticism.

    You really can't blame them for doing this. Schema needs money to pay for all his real-life requirements so he can continue developing the game without having to take up other jobs. This is, of course, assuming that he isn't already receiving a sufficient amount of income from starmade sales.
     
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    Give a scale of reference! At some point just the sheer number of power blocks should overcome any reactor design, especially past the 1mil soft cap.
     
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    Give a scale of reference! At some point just the sheer number of power blocks should overcome any reactor design, especially past the 1mil soft cap.
    You're missing the point here.

    "sheer numbers should overcome any design" is exactly the kind of cancerous mentality that needs to be stamped out here. It encourages giganticism.
    Special reactor designs are useful no matter what size of ship you are using. If you can pack more power into a smaller amount of space and get more energy out of it by placing it correctly, then it's a useful design that will help you stay on your feet. Especially if your ship takes massive amounts of damage, and has gaping holes in it that have lots of your simple chunk-cube power clusters destroyed. The reactor could most likely still be kicking and giving out enough power for you to still survive.

    Since you asked for a reference however, I quote my own ship design:
    The Space Battleship Sunset.

    It is 275 meters long. An average-sized capital ship.

    It has 2 million power regen, so I suppose you would say then, "it doesn't need an advanced reactor then, its sheer power alone should overcome any need for such a complicated internal mechanism".

    But what you fail to realize is that a good reactor is crucial to every ship, no matter what the size, as it helps kick off the power regen values when you start building the ship, so you can more quickly (and lightly-weighted) reach that 1 million soft cap and start adding on long lines, and then slowly transition to large chunks of power blocks as you get less and less returns.

    That's how the system works.

    To show you just how useful an advanced reactor is on a ship this big, I did a cutaway of the ship the other day where I literally went in build mode and chopped off one entire half of the ship running from bow to stern. The ship, thanks to its advanced reactor, continued to produce a large amount of power, having only lost less than 1/4th of its power regen even though half of the ship was destroyed.

    I have been working on this little girl of mine for 9 months, pouring into every detail and aspect of it. I have had to refit the interior only a few times, and only partially, because of changes to game mechanics.

    Luckily, I have done no changes to the actual reactor since I first began construction 9 months ago, back when boxdim reactors reigned supreme. I had added in long lines all over the underside shoulders of the reactor (it was T-shaped inside, for the big boxdim regen), so they give me just as good a boost as I need.
    Ultimately I have not lost any actual power from the shift to long line reactors (I believe it was because long lines were brought up to the usefulness level of boxdims, rather than boxdims being scaled down, or at least the two mechanics agreed to meet in the middle), but this change to long line supremacy still brings the issue that you can no longer build a specially-designed reactor to more easily power your ship.
     
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    I see your point now, but imagine trying to balance reactor design mechanics. The old system was far from perfect in this regard.
     

    MossyStone48

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    There were issues with boxdimmed reactors as well. It was all too easy to slap together an easily OP ship. Nearly all of my ships tossed out box dim in favor of line reactors. In small ships (like I tend to build) they were the only thing that made any sense. I had two largish ships that used a hybrid reactor system with two small boxdim reactors as core power and several dozen auxiliary line reactors. Now the line reactors are the power core and the boxdim reactors still power enough to be useful. The vanilla settings should be fine for most community centered servers. You want that extra goosing of efficiency then you're prolly better off on a PvP server. It's the only place that would need that sort of power to fire the guns. Even then people are exploiting aspects of the new weapons and defensive systems that make PvP either too easy or near impossible. So more balance is required. Eventually.
     

    NeonSturm

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    Lets say 2 players have same amount of shields - each survives 10 seconds.

    But one has 1.1kk power regen and one just 1 mille.
    Assuming both use about equal weapons and are experienced with the weapon system, who wins?

    if you are the first one to cut the enemy main weapon array into 3-4 parts, he spend about 40% more energy than you and you receive less damage.
    If there is no strategy, even 10% advantage can easily snowball into 30 or 50% advantage.

    That is the real issue with gigantism.
     
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    There were issues with boxdimmed reactors as well. It was all too easy to slap together an easily OP ship.
    Just curious because Andy mentioned this same argument earlier as well, could I see some picture examples of these "unfairly OP" reactors you're talking about?
    I had been using BoxDim all the time and I always found it to be very fair for power generation
     

    MossyStone48

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    It's in the math. And to keep it from those who would abuse it.. No, no pics. Sry, mate.