Turning has been nerfed a liiiitle too much.

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    Anyone else think he nerfed the turning to much?

    Don't get me wrong, I like the idea. But anything barely bigger than an Isanth IV has a turning circle of a cruise ship. Even pirate ships are glitching out because of how nerfed it is!

    Is it possible to make a server option to undo the turning? Pirates fly comically past me but then take a good 20 seconds to be able to shoot me and I can just barely dodge asteriods by using E and Q. And it is fun to watch Pirate vs Merchant battles, with them flying past them then sloooooowly facing each other.
     
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    But if I remember correctly schema said he was having a guess at the ratio of the turning speed, and so it was subject to change. I suspect the change may go ahead.
     
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    I didn\'t see that part. I don\'t want to sound like I\'m critisizing him.
     
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    turning is nerfed, a lot to much if you ask me. fighters are now plainly better than titans, when they are able to get behind the titan. which they now always can.from there they can just chip away at your shield without being able to turn and face them. sure, you can put a shit load of turrets on your ship. but some ships just do not look good with a lot of turrets. and its also isnt very fun to wait and do nothing till your crappy ai turrets finaly shoot down the fighter that you could kill, if only your front cannon could face him.

    and i don\'t get it why people are so against titans ): part of the fun in this game is building a big ship that you can fight with. but now that they became almost unusable (because they just do not turn) what is the point in making them? its the same as building a big house in minecraft. sure it looks pretty, but you can do nothing with it.
     
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    That people are sick of everyone steamrolling through using fleets of titans cheated in. But for most it is because \'HuRuR Bigs SHiPz ToO HAAAARRRDDD\' and they want to be able to destroy a capital ship with a core. For me building titan \'generation ships\' with living areas and all is part of the fun! But even my backup fighter docked inside is too slow to move...
     
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    that bigger shipsare overpowered in this game, but I also think a fighter-sized ship should not be able to take out a titan. Unless, that is, its a whole fleet of fighters. A balane is needed between the power of titans to the power of fighters. Just the right balance needs to be found.
     
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    I started that topic \"directional thrusters\" because of this slow turn speed.
     
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    Right, everything at capital ships is nerfed now, not even when the capital ship shields were nerfed to a point they became useless, some crybabies were still accusing those of being \"gamebreaky\" and a \"MUST BE GONE\" thing. Just because they are not able to build anything big that can fight, doesn\'t mean they shouldn\'t be used at all, making them useless.
     
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    with the current turn speed penalty, is that it maxes out at somewhere around 100 blocks per direction.

    It should reach 1.0 at 1000 blocks instead.

    As it is, it\'s really weird to see my 310 long destroyer and a pal\'s 690 long battlecruiser turn at the SAME speed. And both turns way slower than it\'d be justifiable.
     
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    Don\'t generalize the population that take a stance against capital ships. That\'s just rude.



    I agree that the default turning speed is far too punishing, I think Fortilius is right that it should take 1000 blocks on one dimension to bring you down to 1.0 degree\'s of turning on the axis it\'s attached too.



    But capital ships certainly aren\'t useless with low turning speed, just boring. I don\'t understand why people have problems with small ships being more maneuverable than titans, that\'s the point of having small ships.

    If you wanna protect your blind spots on your capital ship, build turrets. Simple as that really.
     
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    I didn\'t mean to generalise people. I apologise.

    Turrets...need some improvement to be truly effective, and I can understand that big ships mean small agility. You wouldn\'t expect someone to drift in a limo right? The point I\'m trying to make is that they are nerfed too much. I\'d be quite happy for my capital ship to turn slowly. Just not as slow as Earth\'s rotation.
     
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    I wasn\'t criticizing you for generalizing, my response was to MichaelSeph because Mike said capital ships are completely useless because people in smaller ships whined about it.

    It\'s just ignorant to assume that anyone who takes a stance against capital ships must be someone who makes small ships and wants easy ways to win against capital ships. And it\'s even more ignorant to assume that these same people whine about cap ships because they are unwilling to build them.

    I\'m aware that there ARE some people who fit that description. But there are also those who do not fit that description, and have valid reasons for taking stances against capital ships, just as there are for people who do the same for fighters.

    It just gives me the impression that if I have an issue about capital ships, Mike would immediately have a negative opinion about me as a player and discard my issue based on stereotype. I don\'t wanna feel that way :(
     

    MrFURB

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    My honest opinion on this topic? The change to add in dimension calculations into the fold is a step in the right direction, and the option to change the values in server config files is a huge leap forward.

    The level of forgiveness for larger craft is too small, though. Changing the config option for turning to 0.9-0.5 fixes it up nice and good.

    I think the problem of balancing between small/big shouldn\'t be adressed with stat changes that pressure high-efficiency builders to homogenize their goals and layouts. In my eyes the solution lies in giving smaller and larger ships different goals in the same situation. Perhaps some tools for a job are more efficient in a smaller, more agile ship\'s chassis, and others work better when grouped with hundreds of other blocks inside the modular bays of a capital ship.

    I\'d rather a pilot in a big ship not be able to turn at any \'fun\' rate, but have too many awesome toys in his half-kilometer-long monster to be bothered with something as trivial as turning speed. Let the small craft have their advantages, but give the big guys something worth their time, be it high-power long-range scanners for patrolling your star system, mining depth charges used in massive numbers for instantly mining asteroids, or even a tacmap on your bridge with a drone control interface.

    For me, turning speed isn\'t the root of the problem. The problem is that big ships right now are essentially... Well, bigger small ships.
     
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    And if you don\'t like, it\'s a good thing you can change the settings yourself.
     
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    I do agree that some of the turning speed may be a tiny bit too slow for comfort, but I disagree with most of the posters\' reasoning. Ironic that players now claim irritated that the reason is people who build small ships crying over efficiency of their titans, which is like crying in it\'s own right. Hypocrisy is bad.

    Now, while it made moving my big etc ships somewhat of a bore, I can also see how it helped with bigger-scale fights. Yes, fighters can now circle your ship without being hit. But it\'s balanced by not only the fact that it can be prevented by the turrets, but also the fact that on bigger ships shields are usually still potent enough for the lone fighter pilot to need to have a meal and diaper prepared for long, long time of constant shooting before he\'ll make a dent.

    I understand that not everyone wants to make ships covered by turrets. I can get behind that, it\'s sometimes just not aesthetically appealing. But if it\'s so, don\'t hope for victory, plain and simple - it\'s you who didn\'t make the most optimal design, for better or worse. I saw plenty of guys on different servers proud of their floating mountains because they could knock a hole in everything getting mad like little kids that people can outmaneouver them. And that, ladies and gents, for me is a point defending the whole nerf sufficiently.

    Earlier, you had lone titans with front mounted big cannons which were just charging through whatever was in their path, with exception of another titan and the like who could take them head on. Now, for decent battle you have different ships of different tonnage, using different tactic - a thing which didn\'t work too well earlier, being simply a matter of more dakka (ridiculous ships being simple battery of AMC with with some shielding, generators and thrusters) but which is realistic and actually giving one more space for different combat scenarios and some actual strategy other than \'let\'s shoot them more than they shoot us\'.

    Fly in groups, with clear division of roles, the way real battles should be fought. In 1 vs 1, a fighter still won\'t able to do much to properly constructed cruiser, unless there\'s great difference in skills of the pilots, efficiency of design of both ships or cruiser\'s captain will be stubborn enough to swat the enemy with his big, unwieldy guns - which is asking for troubles.

    So, yeah, as controversional as it may be, the fact that you can have little flies being able to be a bother for a giant without being giant\'s unavoidable doom unless said giant will continue just flailing and trying to hit them with main cannons is a sign for me that the change is great, though I do hope for future changes which also make said big ships to be as fun in piloting as small ones are, as the unwieldyness, however necessary, affected the enjoyment of the thing a bit. I personally wait for drones/AI controlled fighters - then big ships will have both a strong defense in a fight against a fleet of small opponents (that is, if they\'ll get proper hangar) and we\'ll all have epic movie-like space battles.
     
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    This change of mechanics is wrong. Just because some heavy fighters / corvette mass ships now turn faster doesn\'t make it good ; that could have been done differently.

    It makes already inefficient stretched / hollow ships even worse and annoying to fly. Doomcubes of server bullying , however , now have free reign spinning in place to shred your awkward paper ships with their optimized arrays. Who needs turrets ?

    All we needed was a change to the turn speed scaling exponents to help medium ships , but nooo.

    Whoever suggested or popularized that idea has the dubious honor of setting starmade development back a few weeks , assuming that new mechanic is eventually scrapped. If not , congratulations , you helped break the game in a new way !

    Furthermore , until max speed scales with mass , there won\'t be any meaningful mobility balance.
     
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    But I didn\'t word it well. DoomCubes (I like that term) are still the best option, clad on a load of shields and you can dominate anything. I\'m glad that big ships are slow (now I have a reason to use my docking area for my smaller fighter) but now anything that isn\'t a DoomCube is too slow to move.
     
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    But if i made a giant ship that still had more final thurst than the fighter, the fact that the fighter turns way faster than me is pure BS.

    Sloooooowly turning your ship to face your next location is one of the most dull and annoying parts of the game at the moment.

    This is why \"lol backpedal\" is the only way to use large ships as is.

    Could you imagine if in a RPG the end game swords swing once a minute for 999 damage and the mid game swords swing once a second? It would be freakin BS! So why do they keep trying to make large ships balanced against small ships?
     
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    There are just exceptions to it, but during the last, about 5 nerfing done to \"big ships\" thanx to complains calling it \"game breaking\" in a way like \"OMGWTF DIS NEED FIX NAW\", many of those couldn\'t handle building a proper big ship that can actually fly properly (energy systems, thruster/mass ratio, etc), actually most of the actual people consider ships as\"huge\" when they are like 10k mass, they would have a brain attack seeing the big builder\'s stuff, bigger than planetsize (which doesn\'t kill servers) which actually works, shoots and flies , or did, before.

    So when I say \"everything at big ships were nerfed\" I mean it, energy regen bonus stops at around 1.2mill regen, making formation or energy system useless beyond it, as well as less effective/block, same for thrusters, AMCs lowered down (but it had sense, they could be lowered down even more now after the heavy shield nerf) and especially missiles, the last known over-did was the shield nerfing making shields atm not regen at all in a duel, and even if it starts to regenerate, the rate is so small it doesn\'t even matter, and now turning speed. This last one could get changed for a little tweaking, but not as fast as most want.

    It looks like the nerfing just goes more over-did in time, more severe, probably cus of the tension the community puts on him on NOT game breaking balance topics, which are not even for the Alpha stage, but he does them because he listens to the community (which is actually rare, you see.)