Too many NPC ships. Intentional ?

[Koloss_Meshuggah]

Today I finally downloaded the NPC update. I went to scavenger space to see what fleets are like, and I was greeted by literally 30 ships all shooting at each other. My fps dropped to 1 and I just barely got my ship out of the area. Is this intentional ? I know we all want to see epic battles but 30 ships is a bit much.

Are there any config setting for limiting the number of npc ships spawned ?

Another problem that I'd think would effect fps is the population of the universe. There should be other settings to limit the spawn chance of each type of object. I know there's one for shop spawn chance, but there is nothing for asteroids planets or stations, and stations are the most common fps killer to suddenly run into. These kind of settings seem a bit crucial for this game. Are there any plans to implement more spawn chance settings ?

I know the game can't cater to low-end PCs but there should be settings to crank up or down depending on what you have, and I almost think that that npc swarm was caused by a bug.

 

[Jojomo]

Is a 30 ship battle too big? I think that sounds awesome!

I'm envious that you saw it and I didn't...

 

[Jerryfan271]

The amount of NPC ships you encountered was not a bug, I believe. Every defense fleet I've come across has a size of about 38-40 ships. NPC factions make ships based on the amount of resources on hand with a certain amount left over for trading, I'm pretty sure(both resource growth and money allocated towards trading are changeable). I have an okay laptop and my fps is pretty stable during NPC fights, but I'm not sure if there is a setting to limit NPC fleet sizes for people who get lag. If so, it may be in the faction config itself(found in Starmade>>Data>npcFactions>>(faction)).

I personally don't mind the current sizes of NPC fleets, but I suppose for people with older computers it can be annoying.

 

[xxpowerofsoundxx]

Today I finally downloaded the NPC update. I went to scavenger space to see what fleets are like, and I was greeted by literally 30 ships all shooting at each other. My fps dropped to 1 and I just barely got my ship out of the area. Is this intentional ? I know we all want to see epic battles but 30 ships is a bit much.

Are there any config setting for limiting the number of npc ships spawned ?

Another problem that I'd think would effect fps is the population of the universe. There should be other settings to limit the spawn chance of each type of object. I know there's one for shop spawn chance, but there is nothing for asteroids planets or stations, and stations are the most common fps killer to suddenly run into. These kind of settings seem a bit crucial for this game. Are there any plans to implement more spawn chance settings ?

I know the game can't cater to low-end PCs but there should be settings to crank up or down depending on what you have, and I almost think that that npc swarm was caused by a bug.

"amount of chuncks to render" view distance right. should make it easier on your fps. I had 30 or 40 ships around a trade station fighting. Pretty cool to see

 

[Criss]

The individual fleets should not have more than 10 ships. An entire system should hold no more than 30 or so ships. Be sure to check the map when reporting this as you may be looking at more than one fleet that has converged at one location.

 

[Edymnion]

I was greeted by literally 30 ships all shooting at each other. My fps dropped to 1 and I just barely got my ship out of the area. Is this intentional ? I know we all want to see epic battles but 30 ships is a bit much.

Thats what I refer to as a "target rich environment" and/or a "free all you can eat buffet".

 

[Pacific_Jim]

The individual fleets should not have more than 10 ships. An entire system should hold no more than 30 or so ships. Be sure to check the map when reporting this as you may be looking at more than one fleet that has converged at one location.

Something to remember is that if the old style pirates swarm there could be dozens of ships added to that.

 

[StormWing0]

Something to remember is that if the old style pirates swarm there could be dozens of ships added to that.

Yep so much this, noticed the old Pirates like to spawn from time to time and they come in massive numbers resulting in lag hell.

 

[Karride]

Is a 30 ship battle too big? I think that sounds awesome!

I am totally spawning Pirates near the Trader home sector when I get home from work....

 

[godmars]

Something to remember is that if the old style pirates swarm there could be dozens of ships added to that.

This is probably what happened. It's almost like pirates call for backup or something now, you down one in NPC space and a ton more seems to consistently appear

 

[Batavium]

My theory on it and let me stress still a theory.

If a NPC ship gets shot a call for backup goes out. Just as if you were shooting a Pirate Station a call for backup goes out. But because the NPC fleet send in response has a travel time. "Pirates do not have a travel time they spawn from thin air in the sector the call came from" It will not be at the scene for a while. The attack on the NPC ships continuous and this triggers more backup calls. More NPC fleets spawn and start traveling to the scene of the crime. By the time the first fleet arrives a whole armada is underway to re-leave the situation. Like ringing a doorbell 50 times before someone opens the door.

 

[Lord_Greyscale]

Not really. NPC fleets are only, lemme stress this, ONLY spawned at the completion of an NPC "turn" (there's even a command to force one, that's how important the turn is)

Pirates, however, very very rarely spawn additional ships from their ships being shot.

What most likely happens it this: A Pirate STATION is "nearby". (meaning anywhere from 2 to 5 sectors away.)
That station "sees" all the ships within it's raid zone, and sends a raiding party to wherever it sees them.
It will then continue to send raiding parties so long as non-pirate ships are in that sector. (up to and including YOU, sitting there in a jammed & cloaked pod)

Meanwhile, the NPC faction sees pirate ships in it's territory, and currently sends ALL defence fleets in system to "deal with it". Resulting in a fuck-off massive brawl, that ends with the inevitable defeat of the NPC fleets. (and may involve a turn or two passing during the colossal brawl)

This can be used Offensively by the clever player/douchebag, as "standard" Isanth-0 pirates are able to molest NPC fleets practically at will. (exception: the shitty varieties of Isanth-0 are still shit and fail to contribute)
Only the Traders seem to have any real luck fighting them off, (armed stations for the win) and Scavengers are astoundingly weak to normal pirates.
Get enough of them, and they can frag the stations too.

Once you have a large enough murder-ball, un-jam, dodge like a goddamn hyper-ninja, and drag them to the chosen target. If you've got a good enough PC/MAC, enjoy the resulting fireworks. (re-jam and salvage everything that dies.)

 

[Temeter]

(re-jam and salvage everything that dies.)

Since you're writing this, is it possible to salvage faction ships at all? I've been going to war with a faction to salvage some stuff, but salvage beams didn't work on overheating ex-faction ships, like they would do on pirates. Or I need to reboot them manually?

 

[Lord_Greyscale]

Since you're writing this, is it possible to salvage faction ships at all? I've been going to war with a faction to salvage some stuff, but salvage beams didn't work on overheating ex-faction ships, like they would do on pirates. Or I need to reboot them manually?

Odd, it is supposed to work, and did work when I tried that a few days ago. (is possible I just got lucky, and slagged the faction computer)

Lemme do a test-run, see if the hotfixes haven't borked something. (or, if it is just being in a fleet doing the screwing)

EDIT: Hmm, a thought occurs, do Pirate ships have the same problem, or just the new NPC ships?
[doublepost=1482713654,1482712147][/doublepost]Okay, just tested, and it seems the problem is the game "remembering" what fleet they're in.
(and throwing the "you must salvage core manually" error, even when I'm not trying to salvage the core.)

Keep a "scrap" fleet in your fleet list, and add stuff to it that you think you'll be able to salvage.
At that point, salvage beams work as they are supposed to.

This is definately a bug, I'll check and see if it has been reported before.
If not, I'll file the report.

EDIT THE SECOND:
There hadn't been a report about this specific thing, now there is.
Phabricator Task #2130

 

[Koloss_Meshuggah]

Did some more testing and I figured out the problem. Fleets are indeed converging around me, like Criss said.

When entering an NPC system there are always about 6 fleets, all of them say "defending" and are orbiting a few sectors around a station. I admin-warped to a fleet and within seconds a gang of about 8 pirates appeared, then every "defending"fleet in the system converged on that one sector. I just sat there and kept hitting the screenshot button waiting for the game to crash.


Here is how it all developed:







The problem is not the "Isanth" pirates, there are only around 19 of them versus around 43 of the Scav NPCs.

Here are the fleets all converging, there were about 6 of them and more were on the way:




Regardless I steered up quite a conversation, thanks for the concern. Sounds like most of you guys can handle a mosh pit like this, but it still seems like an unintended feature and hopefully will be fixed.

 

[Benevolent27]

The individual fleets should not have more than 10 ships. An entire system should hold no more than 30 or so ships. Be sure to check the map when reporting this as you may be looking at more than one fleet that has converged at one location.

We have run into quite the problem with these NPC factions on our server, Light vs Dark. We decided to make "Light" and "Dark" themed NPC factions, then admin war them against players that use an "!align" command to set their faction's alignment. We have 40 custom themed ships and bases for each NPC faction, so quite a lot of work has gone into this. It seems to work great at first.. The NPC factions go and send a few ships toward their enemies.. keep the pressure going, makes the server feel alive and keeps players working to defend themselves.. that is.. until.. This happens.

The fleets never stop coming! Wave after wave after wave! Endlessly! I had idled in our rather large base. It had previously not had a problem killing the faction ships faster than they could come, but I idled for a few hours in a build block. When I came back, there were over 250 enemy faction ships, totaling around 1 million mass. Suffice it to say, if our base couldn't handle the siege, I am willing to bet a new player with a small starter ship will not be able to defend themselves. I am hoping there will be more config options in the future, such as limiting the amount of ships sent toward an individual enemy or faction, because right now they just send endless waves.. never ending waves.. Good news is, it made a good test of the optimizations we made for our NPC factions and this did not kill the server (it most certainly would have before we optimized the fleet ships the NPC faction used by removing all entities).

My question to you is, can we expect the kind of configuration options in the future to limit how much a NPC faction will throw at a target? Also, might there be some NPC AI console commands to affect the status against individual players and factions, so that we can use those instead of admin warring the NPC factions to player factions?

 

[Criss]

We have run into quite the problem with these NPC factions on our server, Light vs Dark. We decided to make "Light" and "Dark" themed NPC factions, then admin war them against players that use an "!align" command to set their faction's alignment. We have 40 custom themed ships and bases for each NPC faction, so quite a lot of work has gone into this. It seems to work great at first.. The NPC factions go and send a few ships toward their enemies.. keep the pressure going, makes the server feel alive and keeps players working to defend themselves.. that is.. until.. This happens.

The fleets never stop coming! Wave after wave after wave! Endlessly! I had idled in our rather large base. It had previously not had a problem killing the faction ships faster than they could come, but I idled for a few hours in a build block. When I came back, there were over 250 enemy faction ships, totaling around 1 million mass. Suffice it to say, if our base couldn't handle the siege, I am willing to bet a new player with a small starter ship will not be able to defend themselves. I am hoping there will be more config options in the future, such as limiting the amount of ships sent toward an individual enemy or faction, because right now they just send endless waves.. never ending waves.. Good news is, it made a good test of the optimizations we made for our NPC factions and this did not kill the server (it most certainly would have before we optimized the fleet ships the NPC faction used by removing all entities).

My question to you is, can we expect the kind of configuration options in the future to limit how much a NPC faction will throw at a target? Also, might there be some NPC AI console commands to affect the status against individual players and factions, so that we can use those instead of admin warring the NPC factions to player factions?

Well the system keeps track of their aggression. If you forced them to fight and then they kept killing their enemies, they will remember that and it will keep them locked in war. I don't really have an answer, but if you start a war with an NPC faction, be expected to finish it for now.

 

[Benevolent27]

Well the system keeps track of their aggression. If you forced them to fight and then they kept killing their enemies, they will remember that and it will keep them locked in war. I don't really have an answer, but if you start a war with an NPC faction, be expected to finish it for now.

Well, we have a custom theme for our server, where players use our wrapper to "!align". This auto-wars them to all factions of the opposite alignment and allies them to factions of the same alignment. Our concept is to have an NPC faction for both the light and dark. So players will be permanently at war with these NPC factions. I know this isn't built into the way NPC factions are designed, but I wouldn't permawar them, if there were commands to change the hostility levels. For instance, I might make it reset every now and again, so they are in a semi-warred status.

I'm just wondering if there will be a way to limit how many waves the NPC factions send? Right now, the only solution I can think of is to remove all warships from the NPC faction and then use additional scripting that will handle attacks, by admin spawning in ships to player locations at random intervals. Only problem with this is that the NPC faction would be unable to defend itself. Or perhaps I could set the "attacking" spawns to 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, ect, but set the "defending" ratios a bit higher? I'm just trying to figure this out, because it was a lot of fun for our players at first, till things spiraled out of control, lol.

 

[TrickyNicky27]

That shit looks awesome...like a black hole or something

 

[Shaker]

Gotta love it when 1 missile heads off to the npc ship and all there is left is a core