Thruster Update or Revamp

    Lone_Puppy

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    Thruster Update or Revamp

    My suggestion is to convert Thuster systems and mechanics to operate like that of a weapon. In particular, the cannon.

    This would require having thrust or thruster computers that have groups of thrusters linked the same way we link weapons modules.
    You could even use the same directional control built into cannons, where you rotate the computer appropriately.
    However, I would prefer the module to control orientation, than the computer so that you can place the computer into your ship interior however you want.

    On that note, an animated texture for the computer screen would be cool. Either simple animation or one that has active feedback on system status, function and current operation.

    The existing thruster block would then become a thrust or thruster module.
    This thrust module would perform like or similar to a cannon module where the pulse causes a recoil that ultimately provides momentum or movement.

    Naturally, the thrust projectile or partical(s) would have a shorter life and calculated distance than a cannon projectile, but a higher recoil than a cannon.
    Perhaps have the thruster partical(s) trajectory be a focal point relating to adjacent thruster modules, so you get a type of plumage and difusion point. What I mean by defusion point is, where the particals life/timeout begins so it fades out.
    The focal point could change depending on the radius or total number of thrust modules in the group, so you can have larger and longer trails or plumes.

    Something else to note is, using the weapons mechanic would turn the thruster exhaust/plume into something lethal and damaging.
    So, thought would be required when building landing platforms, hangers, taking off and flying.
    Not to mention, standing behind a thruster would be lethal to an astronaught, flora or forna. So care must be taking.
    Thrusters could be used as a simple weapon in this instance, as would a real thruster should that be all you have.
    Take the toasting of the hybrid in "The Expanse".

    Differentiation between Main and Manauvering thrusters could now be possible.
    Where you could activate/deactivate thrust group computers with logic or key combos, so you can switch between manauvering and flat out propulsion.

    For this to work I suggest Thruster Groups be assigned to the existing directional controls somehow, e.g. W-S forward/reverse, A-D strafe left/right, etc. This is so the appropriate thrust modules only, fire when those directional controls are activated or used. Set at the computer perhaps, like we do with the BobbyAI.
    Example, if I press 'W' key, only the thrusters used for forward momentum activate. All other thrusters stay dead/inactive.
    The caveat is, you will now require reverse thrusters. Which is logical, and to rapidly reverse thrust you would need to rotate the ship to use the main thrusters.

    This control mechanism would also allow for thrusters to continue being used for decoration and not kill crew should they be used internally.

    I believe this conversion should not be too difficult now that weapons have a recoil, because we are simply making a new kind of cannon with a modified recoil, projectile TTL distance and focal point. I don't know how difficult engineering the new computer and controls would be though. So I apologise for making any undue assumptions.
     
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    This fixes multiple problems and seems like it would be fun to use. Great idea.

    One benefit not mentioned is rotatable thrusters. Since the current recoil mechanic takes into account the direction of docked entities, rotatable thrusters would be possible even without any additional coding.
     

    Lone_Puppy

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    This fixes multiple problems and seems like it would be fun to use. Great idea.

    One benefit not mentioned is rotatable thrusters. Since the current recoil mechanic takes into account the direction of docked entities, rotatable thrusters would be possible even without any additional coding.
    I kinda thought you could use rotator rails with docked thruster entities for this kind of thing.
    [doublepost=1537155079,1537154888][/doublepost]Actually, now I think of it you could just build docked thrusters for whatever purpose and only have the main thrusters onboard.
    But then again, you could go completely docked thrusters allowing for main thrusters to be used for reverse thrust.
    So many options with the recoil now.

    I've played with using a cannon for thrust and it works as a basic thruster. Only problem is the projectiles shooting all over the place uncontrollably.
     

    Lone_Puppy

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    I had a thought about the recoil focal point and there is already a mechanic to choose the module that has the main output. So you could use this as the means to control where the focal point is positioned and a distance calculation would be based either on the radius or quantity of thrust modules. I think quantity could be simpler than having to calculate radius, so I would lean in this direction.

    As for the plume, I also thought about how you could have a particle effect for the firing and still have the existing plume glow that is a distance around the focal point stretching from the chosen output module and extends or contorts based on increased power/thrust output.

    Hmm, maybe I should update the original post with these additional after thoughts?
     
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    Largely I am all for having more construction based thrust distribution. For a more physics based aproach like in this suggestion, I would however prefer it, if the system is a little bit softer on applying directional forces. Ohterwise it might quickly turn into an very anoying task to perfectly align my thrsuters with the center mass.
     
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    good idea
    i think the projectiles would ignore shields and you would need a new reactor chamber to protect against the plasma. as in the projectiles work like the hand held torch weapon.
     
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    Lone_Puppy

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    bit softer on applying directional forces.
    Yes, I agree! With my tests using cannons, it's insanely difficult to manage direction control speaking.
    good idea
    i think the projectiles would ignore shields and you would need a new reactor chamber to protect against the plasma. as in the projectiles work like the hand held torch weapon.
    I did think the existing thrust chamber would have some involvement, but didn't really think about how.
    I Also thought it would be interesting if engines had weapon properties similar to the torch, but personally I would be just happy with thrust for now.
     
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    with the new weapon update and the release of heat damage maybe heat damage could build up over time with exposure to plasma fumes too long? and maybe when thrusters are covered they cause heat damage to blocks in the way of the thrust plume regardless if its another ship or not.
     
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    This sounds like a great suggestion, it would be a hell of a lot better than the funky omnidirectional at any scale setup we have now. But it will create an issue for newer players, where just figuring out how to get a ship moving seems overly complicated. Perhaps the ship core should be able to control a certain number of blocks linked to it as if they were omnidirectional but provide 1/6 thrust regardless of direction and allow for a slow rotation and limited thrust. That would get the ball rolling on very small, simple builds. Engine computers could then be used for monodirectional thrusters that work in tandem with one another to rotate and propel the craft. Still nothing preventing very large, well engineered craft behaving like big fighters like they do now, but it would be significantly more interesting to engineer them than just slapping down a big cube of thruster blocks and suddenly you can zip around like a 3 billion ton hummingbird

    The particle expulsion and damage mechanic could also become a huge drag on game performance. Maybe if the damage were instead dealt within x distance from the thruster in a 30° cone or something. Less particles/projectiles to track, but then you need to track when ships enter that cone of damage.

    Alternatively they could generate a static trail of damage pulse fields with a glowy particle effect in the middle that lingers for x period of time and affect objects within y radius of them. Again, though, too many of those would be bad for the server while trying to track objects. And that would look stupid on reverse thrusters when braking, as youd be flying through the particle trail your thrusters are generating as you attempt to brake.
     

    Gasboy

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    it would be a hell of a lot better than the funky omnidirectional at any scale setup we have now.
    It's omnidirectional by default. You can set it so that it goes 100% forward/backwards, and 0% up/down and 0% left/right. And even make rotating around on the ship's axis very sluggish.
     
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    True but if you modify it youd be at a disadvantage as the current pvp paradigm goes, because a pvp ship needs to be able to switch directions without warning and rotate as quickly as possible
    i understand a lot of people prefer to yaw left/right rather than pitch or roll so they build vertical ships, which always struck me as odd and unnatural in a 3d environment not just as a choice of manuevering like why would one axes be preferable to another? but also because thats counterintuitive physically, as putting rotational thrusters on the top and bottom of that extra tall ship should logically give you great leverage when rolling or pitching and piss poor leverage when yawing (you would want an equally wide ship as it is tall with the center of mass at the center of volume to achieve equal leverage on both axes using the same force and length of lever on each axis, right?), but the game acts like im an idiot and tried putting my rotational thrusters in the center of mass, but even if that were true i should have even rotation on all axes if i assume all my rotational thrusters are equadistant from that center of mass. So wence cometh ships that rotate best perpendicular to their shortest axis?

    Sorry for the rant but the current rotation mechanics make me want to strangle puppies...

    The suggested mechanics would make it more difficult to build a ship that is equally manueverable in all directions and on all rotational axes, but thats not necessarily either a good or bad thing.
     
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    Gasboy

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    The thing is, wouldn't it be better to add more/better functionality to the repulsors, or make it so that you could simply add thrusters to the sides/top/bottom/front/rear of the ship and they would thrust properly? I don't see the point of making thrusters act like cannons.
     
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    That part at least does escape me as well. Presumably using computers should give you more control over them, like to be able to use logic alone to control your ships thrusters from outsode the core, which would be pretty neat. Kinda like the push computer used to do. The particle/shooting out stuff sounds like it will cause more problems than it adds real value, but the mention of force recoil that cannons use i interpreted as proof that the game is currently capable of handling thrusters if they were to behave in this way, based on location and orientation, as opposed to the pretty simple mechanic we have now, and that part i think would be actually pretty cool to have. If theres a system in place to prevent an unbalanced craft from behaving unbalanced, like a smart control or sas to keep it flying straight and pointing the right direction.
     
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