Read by Schine Outline: Organizing Inventory/Storage By Volume

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    I made this thread not to disrespect Schine, nor to imply that this has never been suggested before. In this thread, I've crafted an outline on an alternative system for how our inventory and item storage works, that would be more similar to Space Engineers's system as opposed to the stack-based system similar to Minecraft.

    ONLY to serve as an example to be referred to, here is an image of the inventory UI in Space Engineers. http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net...ventory.png/revision/latest?cb=20140426030822

    How The Inventory Is Set Up
    Under this system, any inventory, even the player's would have potentially limitless 'squares' that could be occupied by an itemtype. Above the squares of inventory space, you would see your capacity (let's call it m^3 volume, and not weight), and the value of the collection of things in your inventory, and their accumulated volume.

    If you look at the example image from Space Engineers, you can see that the amount of squares expands as needed, and each separate object has its own individual square. The amount in the 'stack' is irrelevant- what matters is the fact that the container can only hold a specific value of combined volume.

    Individual Values
    Each type of item would only need a value to assign how much volume it takes up, perhaps defined as cubic meters (m^3). That way, larger items could FEEL larger simply because you can clearly see their effect on your inventory's capacity. Carrying a bunch of loose refined materials would be easier than carrying raw bulky ore that cannot compress together very well, being so coarse. Another example would be small items and ship components as opposed to large ones.

    Perhaps regardless of the size of the BLOCK, a computer would be worth less volume than an actual module of the same system. That at least adds a bit more depth to the concept that while we live in a world of blocks, they are not all simply the same blocks.

    In the example of Space Engineers, to save space these values (both volume and mass) are not actually displayed, not even on mouse-over. It's generally inferred that a unit of ore would be heavier than other things, but otherwise you'd need the wiki to know. Perhaps StarMade's UI might be better for at least including the volume of an item in its tool-tip for the purpose of letting a player calculate space requirements better.

    Also, I'd like to point out that this system could allow for much larger values of the same item, as stacks would no longer be any kind of factor. It might be more fun for various reasons to mine a planet and get hundreds of units of the ore, rather than the standard "one item per block you break."

    Accommodating Multiple Inventories
    As you can see from the example of Space Engineers, the player has access to one singular Inventory panel, which aggregates all inventories they have access to at the terminal they are looking at. While we don't need to copy their system for this, I would at least like to point out how multiple inventories are handled.

    In terms of StarMade, let's say you access a terminal that represents the cargo-room of a ship (as detailed by a recent development blog by Bench). When you view this terminal, you could see, like a normal 'chest', your own inventory, and then the inventory of the object you've opened.

    It might be useful in StarMade, if we had the means to 'see' all the other inventories that would be reasonably connected with what we were accessing as well.



    Thanks for reading, and please do contribute your thoughts to this system! Let me know if there's something you don't like about it, or would change, and why.
     
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    I actually thought this idea was already more common, and was surprised that I couldn't find many people who knew about this. In this thread, I've crafted an outline on an alternative system for how our inventory and item storage works, that would be more similar to Space Engineers's system as opposed to the stack-based system similar to Minecraft.

    ONLY to serve as an example to be referred to, here is an image of the inventory UI in Space Engineers. http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net...ventory.png/revision/latest?cb=20140426030822

    snip.
    I had really really hoped that this is what was going to happen but from the sounds of the newest dev blog thing on the news page we are getting "stack limits"
     
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    I had really really hoped that this is what was going to happen but from the sounds of the newest dev blog thing on the news page we are getting "stack limits"
    Well actually, what drove me to make this thread was a discussion I had with Bench. It became apparent to me that it's possible some of the developers have not actually played Space Engineers, and so the concept of doing inventory in this way may be legitimately new to them.

    I am hoping that the introduction of the idea will be more appealing to them, and replace the stack system.
     
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    Well actually, what drove me to make this thread was a discussion I had with Bench. It became apparent to me that it's possible some of the developers have not actually played Space Engineers, and so the concept of doing inventory in this way may be legitimately new to them.

    I am hoping that the introduction of the idea will be more appealing to them, and replace the stack system.
    the first game i ever played with volume based inventories was eve online ever since then i've always thought that having volume based inventories rather than arbitrary "stack limits" was a much better system.
     
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    I mean, the stack system is a lot like predecessors like Diablo 2, where you could play 'inventory tetris'. Some people love that, and some people hate it, but one thing is clear: the simplified system made popular by Minecraft is extremely simplified, and not useful when you have a wide variety of items (which vanilla Minecraft does not have.)
     
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    Yes, I'd have to agree with you on this. I've suggested this a few times, but you've put this down quite clearly.
     
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    Thanks, still looking for more feedback- what could we change to make it even better for Starmade though?
     
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    Well actually, what drove me to make this thread was a discussion I had with Bench. It became apparent to me that it's possible some of the developers have not actually played Space Engineers, and so the concept of doing inventory in this way may be legitimately new to them.
    possible, but highly unlikely since volumetric storage has come up in this suggestion forum many, many times. because it would be perfect for starmade and should be relatively easy to implement.

    so... stack limits? really? ugh...
     
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    Well what do you think makes it so unlikely? I'd love the voice of god to comment, here. lol
     
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    Well what do you think makes it so unlikely?
    i already said.

    let me tell you again, though since you didn't read/comprehend the first time i probably shouldn't.

    MANY different approaches to volume-based storage (including suggestions they should copy Space Engineers) have been suggested here already. many times. over a period of years. therefore the idea that the Schine team is simply "not familiar with the concept" is highly unlikely. they read most of the suggestions here, so they've already read dozens of people suggesting they implement volume-based storage (myself, for one, like 6 months ago, and others before and since).

    if they're going for stack limits then at this point its because that's their choice, not because they don't understand the alternative.
     
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    i already said.

    let me tell you again, though since you didn't read/comprehend the first time i probably shouldn't.
    Your tone confuses me, so I rewrote the beginning of the post. I never intended for the tone of my original post to sound as if Schine never knew, or were too dumb to implement my idea. That's not what this thread was ever meant to be about. I'm sorry it may have come off that way.

    I will maintain though, that the way the latest dev blog words the situation, it sounds as if there is a problem with balancing stack values, and I feel like balancing volume would be easier to manage.

    I also would like to invite the opinions of those who think the stack system would better serve the game, rather than just saying that the authority is absolutely correct.
     
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    I will maintain though, that the way the latest dev blog words the situation, it sounds as if there is a problem with balancing stack values, and I feel like balancing volume would be easier to manage.
    Completely in agreement. I think that volume storage would not only result in better balance, but would be way more fun as well, since it would give rise to the need for mining ships with sufficient storage space as well as actual freighters. This would not only create fun role-play opportunities but would help reduce the all-in-one effect of players flying in ships that "do it all" in a single vessel.

    I feel like a natural corollary of this is that shops should buy & sell directly to & from an assigned volume storage unit, finally allowing player-owned shops to stock more than a meager 50K of each item type.
     
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    I feel there should be a new unbuildable crate block and the area trigger block should become an area definition block.

    Changing the area trigger block to a area definition block will save a block space and make it a bite more simple to define the area. Connecting the area definition block to a Trigger Area Controller will work the way it does now, using the texture it has now. Connecting the area definition block to a storage block will define its storage area, using a grey colored crate texture. Other uses may appear later down the road.

    Crate blocks, are unbuildable and will fill the defined area from the bottom to the top, based on the orientation of the linked storage block. The texture used depends on the stored items (ore, manufactured blocks, hull, armor, systems, weapons, ect.); one slot ‘stack’ based on cubic space = one crate in the defined area.
     
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    Also, they mentioned in the news post that having the expanded cargo simply gives more slots, rather than expanding the stack limits. While I do appreciate the extra slots, that means keeping track of how much of an item you have in all slots, which could be scattered around the inventory.
    Also, this is way more moddable than stack limits are. Depending on how much loot I want a certain thing to carry, this means balancing how much loot me and my crew and my tribbles and my pet space whales can carry can be adjusted easily.
    Plus there might be mods for different types of cargo storages.
     
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    Id LOVE volumetric storage ^_^ Itd make sense, however it would be another bit of infomation to assign to each block.
     
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    I agree, as cool as the new systems for inventory and ship cargo will work, volumetric sorting is just easier to manage than stacks of items.
     
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    bit of infomation to assign to each block.
    No it wouldn't. Volume would be a property defined per block type, not per block. It's irrelevant when the block is placed - it's only relevant when the block is in an inventory.