Nukes and Drones - MultiPart Entities

[Benevolent27]

I can see that nukes have been suggested before, but not as part of a multi-part entity that changes the way the entity behaves, not as remote controllable, and not alongside drones. So I am posting this as a separate post.

A multi-part entity is an entity that behaves differently than the collection of individual blocks it is comprised of. For example, to build a missile, it might need at least 1 warhead container, one launch computer, and 1 thruster at a minimum. To be optimal, it would also need warheads placed into it (perhaps there could be firebomb, nuclear warheads, and chemical warhead varieties) and power reactors to power the thing. To remote control it (up to a certain distance), it would need a remote control computer and an antenna. The larger the antenna, the farther out you can remote control it, but the more power it needs. If you want the missile to be able to jump, it would need a jump drive.

So here's how it would work. After an entity has at least a warhead, thruster, and launch computer, you could program it and activate the missile mode of the entity. You program it to go to a location and then ram any unfriendly entity. If not being remote controlled by a user, then it would need a bobby ai module. When you hit the "launch" button, it takes off. If it has jump drives, it would use them to get to it's destination. The entity would not be like a normal AI entity though. If it is hit only a few times, it quite literally blows up. These things would be very fragile, just like a missile is in real life. The thrust would have a multiplier though, so it would be faster than a normal entity. If it is equipped with a remote controller and antenna, then you could actually steer it yourself, change it's coordinates, activate/deactivate, or self-destruct it remotely. But the antenna and remote control would use a significant amount of power, so it would only work up to maybe 10 sectors at most and the missile would have to have sufficient power to utilize these functions.

Now, with missiles, there could be different types of warheads to place into the warhead container:
1. Nuclear: These are very expensive to make, have a large blast radius (doing the most damage near the center), and they leave nuclear radiation around a large area that hurts astronauts and anyone in a ship core for a while. Radiation damage to players would be reduced or completely negated if they are behind multiple layers of armor. (similar to how the sun damage is supposed to work)
2. Firebomb: These are relatively cheap to make. The missile would not do a lot of damage to shields and only do relatively moderate damage to unshielded blocks. But it would leave fire behind that continues to do damage to astronauts and blocks for a little while. These fires could be put out with astrotech beams.
3. Chemical: These are somewhat more expensive to make than firebombs. These missiles would do no damage to shields, and minor damage to blocks, but would hang around much longer than a firebomb. These could also be cleaned up with astrotech beams, but would take significantly longer than the firebomb.
4. Explosive charge: These cost about the same as a firebomb. When the missile makes contact, they simply explode. They do equal damage to shielded object and non shielded objects. These would work similarly to how a regular missile damages objects.

With the warhead container, it would work similarly to a storage, in that it could hold more or less warheads. The more warheads you place into the container, the more powerful the missile, but the heavier it becomes.

Drones would work similarly, except they would use different control computers and would not contain a warhead container. They could be remotely controlled, allowing a user to fly it, aim the weapons, and even jump, just like the user in the core. Or they could be dumb drones that are programmed to go to a location and attack, but it would need to be outfitted with a bobby ai module. A drone would not immediately explode from taking a little damage like a missile. They could also be equipped with a scanner, and use it if they cannot detect an entity that is attacking them.

Now, this would open gameplay up to have a few new types of systems for ships and bases as well to combat these drones and missiles.

1. Signal Triangulator: What this would do is triangulate where a remote control signal is originating from. The user would need to hold down the button or keep the computer activated via logic pulses. When finished, it flashes the coordinates of the originating signal. It could be placed onto a ship or a base. The larger the triangulator is, the faster it works.
2. Signal Jammer: This would work kind of like a jump-inhibitor, but instead it would disrupt remote control and triangulator signals. How effectively it works would depend on the size of the signal jammer. This could also be placed on a ship or base. The way it would work would be similar to jump inhibitors. If a person is transmitting to a drone and someone activates a signal jammer, their signal jammer would have to be larger than the transmitting antenna of the enemy to fully jam the signal. If it is not larger, then it will at least reduce the effective range of the enemy's transmitting antenna to the degree it is proportionate to the antenna. If used in conjunction with a signal triangular, it would slow down the triangular or stop it, depending on how big it is compared to the triangulator.

So, let me know what you guys think. I think this would be a fun addition to the game.

 

[whooplaah]

I dislike the idea. It opens up griefing opportunities. If you can program a missile to fly 10 sectors over, or jump-drive there, and then kamakazee into a base how is the other person to know who attacked them? You mention a way of defending against such an attack, but how do you retaliate when you don't know who attacked or from where?

A problem with having the remote-control aspect is that if the player-controlled ship is destroyed, the player remote-controling it doesn't die (and doesn't end up teleporting when they respawn, or loosing any credits, or loosing any faction points). From the attacker's standpoint, build a base 10 sectors away from the target, then fly a bunch of remote-missiles to within 1 sector of the target. Attack target, and if missile is destroyed take control of one of the parked missiles.

Why would a warhead+bobby+thrust=missile fly faster than a bobby+thrust=ship?

I do like the idea of different types of warheads (even though I don't use them that often). I think this idea would be better if the range of the missiles was cut to 1 sector at most.

 

[spunkiethefirst]

I think anonymous attacking is already possible within the game using wireless blocks or other logic setups.

The credit, faction point, respawn location, can be done using a sacrificial account to pilot the missile with an undeathinator placed on a nearby asteroid.

I would stick with using the bobby ai on it and making bobby able to be remote controlled to a distance = to the players server memory load distance (3x3x3 sector cube with player in middle sector). Allow the controlling ship to stay cloaked/jammed while piloting a remote entity.
instead of signal triangulator add more functionality to the scanner if needed.

 

[Benevolent27]

I dislike the idea. It opens up griefing opportunities. If you can program a missile to fly 10 sectors over, or jump-drive there, and then kamakazee into a base how is the other person to know who attacked them? You mention a way of defending against such an attack, but how do you retaliate when you don't know who attacked or from where?

A problem with having the remote-control aspect is that if the player-controlled ship is destroyed, the player remote-controling it doesn't die (and doesn't end up teleporting when they respawn, or loosing any credits, or loosing any faction points). From the attacker's standpoint, build a base 10 sectors away from the target, then fly a bunch of remote-missiles to within 1 sector of the target. Attack target, and if missile is destroyed take control of one of the parked missiles.

Why would a warhead+bobby+thrust=missile fly faster than a bobby+thrust=ship?

I do like the idea of different types of warheads (even though I don't use them that often). I think this idea would be better if the range of the missiles was cut to 1 sector at most.

Let me address a few of these concerns.

The missiles could easily be shot down by defense turrets and they would be expensive to make, so if someone decides to use them a lot, they'd better be ready to mine for the materials to make the missiles/drones. This in itself would give people more of a reason to build defensive turrets, even on a faction homed base, due to the lingering effects of some of the warheads.

The reason a missile should be faster than a regular entity is because missiles are made to be faster in real life for a reason. The thrusters on them are made to be very fast, but at the cost of making them fragile. Perhaps there could be a "rocket thruster" item introduced to make it more realistic. I'm not suggesting they be that much faster than a regular ship, just a bit faster to offset the fact that they blow up very quickly.

As for someone not knowing where a missile came from, well, if the missile is unfactioned and set to attack enemy entities, then it wouldn't attack anybody when it shows up (unless it is shot at). Now, if it was factioned, and the faction that owns it is enemies with someone.. it would attack. Missiles would, by default, not attack neutral entities, even if the "consider neutrals enemy" option is on in the faction control panel.

For the balance issue of a drone pilot losing nothing if their ship dies. Well yeah, but they would also be vulnerable. If their target triangulates their signal and jumps on top of their head while they are remote piloting a drone.. They would be very vulnerable indeed and unaware of the danger.
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I think anonymous attacking is already possible within the game using wireless blocks or other logic setups.

The credit, faction point, respawn location, can be done using a sacrificial account to pilot the missile with an undeathinator placed on a nearby asteroid.

I would stick with using the bobby ai on it and making bobby able to be remote controlled to a distance = to the players server memory load distance (3x3x3 sector cube with player in middle sector). Allow the controlling ship to stay cloaked/jammed while piloting a remote entity.
instead of signal triangulator add more functionality to the scanner if needed.

Good points of how people can already be attacked anonymously. Though I wouldn't want my idea to make it easier to do so. I replied to whooplah's concerns about it above, suggesting that missiles be unable to see any entities as an enemy unless factioned.

I think you have a point about the signal triangulator. I am a fan of more systems complexity myself, but simply allowing a scanner to provide the originating signal would also be feasible.

 

[canadianbacon]

https://starmadedock.net/threads/a-...egarding-ammunition-and-swarm-missiles.22726/

I'm going to leave this here as it pertains to your post.

I like the idea of real functioning drone carriers, but I think such a system as your is going too far. We can use existing systems by simply allowing us to mark structures that are far away frome the universe map and telling drones to attack all docked entities. Homebase turrets would annihilate anything but a real seige army so overpoweredness of drones isn't a big concern.

However, no more explosives need to be added. We don't need cruise missiles in the game, although having extremely powerful warhead blocks would be great.