Make the Early Game Less Grindy and New Player Friendly

[Blaza612]

Alright, I've been out of the loop for a while, so pls don't euthanize me if this has been suggested before.

One thing that I've always noticed when looking at the old Starmade (Before the kupu Era), that the grind was simply non-existent, and that was one thing that made the game so much more fun. At that era Starmade made a special kind of material acquisition that no other game did, and it was very light grinding while still allowing for enough time to progress.

Since that era Starmade has changed it's material scope to be literally like EVERY other game, details aside.

Back then one would build there first ship, mine a bit, and sell the ore or Ice Crystal or whatever the hell they got, and relied on shops for their ship parts. Then once they built up their ship to the point of being able to kill pirates, they would salvage them and collect the loot, allowing them to get even bigger and better ships to eventually take on a pirate station.

This system kept grinding to a minimum, and kept an open field for players to get a nice kick-start into their Starmade lives, and comfortably progress at whatever pace they wanted.

Now, the system has changed and we MUST use factories to build anything decent. Something that is slow, laborious and ultimately uninteresting, and new players don't wanna touch it. Hell, I've been playing Starmade for years now, and I still don't wanna touch it.

So, what do I propose?

Bring the resource game back to the golden age of Starmade. Make a few small changes to the default config, that'll make the game a hell of a lot more new-player friendly, and will remove the learning Mt. Everest.

• Raise the shop prices of every resource. Make it valuable for a player to mine and sell ore to build their ships, and quickly gain funds to experiment.
• Increase the rate of shop restocking. It's ridiculously slow, one can very easily buy out an entire system and have to wait yonks for them to restock. Sure, their are other systems, but considering the state of the jump drive I don't think people are exactly "thrilled" to do such a thing.
• Remove scrap. It's a shit system that ultimately causes pain and annoyance. For pirate ships and pirate stations, don't make them yield scrap when they're defeated, that's just a dick move. For derelicts, that's understandable but still, don't make it ALL scrap. Blocks have a chance to either spawn as scrap or their actual blocks. Scrap blocks will have a very slight amount of damage so players can survey and see what blocks can be harvested.
• EDIT: I learned that due to the server I'm playing on having a different config and my own config being a mess (Don't ask how :p) I wasn't aware of loot clouds still being a thing, and as such, I apologize.
• Make stations being attacked call in fleets less frequently. If you're attempting to take down a station, it's gonna take a while, and quite frequently you're being swarmed by stupid amounts of enemy ships, whose numbers can rise to the hundreds. Give the limit of enemy ships a soft cap, maybe like 12 or 15. When a fleet is called in, it consists of like 2 - 4 ships, and make them come less often.
• Have pop-up tooltips (That aren't intrusive and don't need to be clicked on to go away) that'll tell players what to do whenever they do a thing. They select a power-block in their hotbar, the thing will tell them "This is power block, it make power, place it on shit to generate power" in one form or the other. Same goes for whatever a new player will first do. Of course when the game starts there'll be a tool-tip telling them about their ship-core and to press X to spawn it. Having a tutorial that reacts with the player exploring the game and simply acts as a basic guide is what we want, and as such, the video tutorials should be pushed back to the menu where a player will stumble upon them, rather than have them shoved in his face.

Now, what will all this balancing achieve? A hell of a better start-game that'll keep players interested, and will remove the ludicrous learning cliff that has ultimately been the reason of a declining player-base. Player retention will rise and now that we have a fancy launcher and main menu, this is the perfect time to add these changes. Now is the time to start thinking about how players can and do interact with the game and how to get them interested in the game from the start and keep them interested. While tutorial videos are all fine and dandy, that's probably the last thing a new player will want to see in his face when he starts up.

So there you have it, my suggestion to make the game to new players 10x better as well as improve the early game in general, for both new and experienced players, bringing back the golden age of Starmade.

 

[MossyStone48]

Kupu does textures. I don't think he'd even think to meddle with game balance.

You've been on NASS so I know you have seen that loot clouds are still very much alive.

You're literally asking for a return to the days when pulling apart 1/2 a default station would net you 2.14bil creds. I mean what's to stop you from fetching a copy of .08x and copying the config options from it to 19x.xxx's config? Go a step further and set that up on a 5 dollar a month vps and have 3-4 ppl test it out. See how it does. But at those rates you may as well leave the admin list blank.

I'm not saying your proposals are bad ideas. But there's a way to accomplish that now. Test it, document it and present it. If you can demonstrate the old ways were actually better and provide folks with the kit and resources to duplicate your feat simultaneously then that's pure win. New server using your config might become the norm and schine team might start adjusting their default balance to meet your revival rebalance.

Call it Blaza's Epic Revival SM Rebalance or something catchier.

 

[Blaza612]

Kupu does textures. I don't think he'd even think to meddle with game balance.

I sort of mark the eras based on the graphic designer. As before kupu came along was the era of I believe BeetleBug or BeetleBear? I can't remember his name, but basing the eras on the graphic designers came from the community itself long ago, not sure from who though. :p

You've been on NASS so I know you have seen that loot clouds are still very much alive.

I have not seen a SINGLE loot cloud on NASS.

You're literally asking for a return to the days when pulling apart 1/2 a default station would net you 2.14bil creds.

That'd only be if you can take down a pirate station. :p

I didn't give the specifics for the rate at which derelicts give actual parts, but I'd guess it'd be somewhere around 70 - 80% scrap.

I mean what's to stop you from fetching a copy of .08x and copying the config options from it to 19x.xxx's config? Go a step further and set that up on a 5 dollar a month vps and have 3-4 ppl test it out. See how it does. But at those rates you may as well leave the admin list blank.

I don't have any money. :p

I'm not saying your proposals are bad ideas. But there's a way to accomplish that now. Test it, document it and present it. If you can demonstrate the old ways were actually better and provide folks with the kit and resources to duplicate your feat simultaneously then that's pure win. New server using your config might become the norm and schine team might start adjusting their default balance to meet your revival rebalance.

Believe me if I could I would, and I hope to be able to soon. If eventually I do get money, I will try it, but until then it's kind of not possible. :/

Call it Blaza's Epic Revival SM Rebalance or something catchier.

Blah's Golden Age :p

 

[jstenholt]

It seems like you might be looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses. While it is true that you used to be able to get into the action quickly and without much fuss, that also meant that you could very easily snowball resource-wise. It was insanely easy for large factions to acquire weapons of mass lagstruction.

I agree the early game Starmade sucks, but you can't look backwards to fix that problem.

 

[Blaza612]

It seems like you might be looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses. While it is true that you used to be able to get into the action quickly and without much fuss, that also meant that you could very easily snowball resource-wise. It was insanely easy for large factions to acquire weapons of mass lagstruction.

I agree the early game Starmade sucks, but you can't look backwards to fix that problem.

I looked backwards and went midway, so to speak. The balance would still be there, as going to derelicts still wouldn't be that great of an idea. Rather, you'd have to go for pirate stations. I guess that to have proper progression there would be tiers, which I imagine already are, but more reward for the more powerful stations would be preferred. I imagine that all of this is in, but again, it wouldn't be like find derelict, and then all of the resources belong to you. :p

 

[MossyStone48]

Who needs money? You have friends. Odds are good someone in the AF has some server space that could be re-purposed for a coupla days. BDLS comes to mind. Knowing him you might have to do something obscenely biological to get his favor but it might be worth it.

Next time you see a NPC pirate Isanth on NASS... pop it. Chance of loot clouds and major rain of creds. Hope you have cargo space to spare.

 

[Blaza612]

Who needs money? You have friends. Odds are good someone in the AF has some server space that could be re-purposed for a coupla days. BDLS comes to mind. Knowing him you might have to do something obscenely biological to get his favor but it might be worth it.

Next time you see a NPC pirate Isanth on NASS... pop it. Chance of loot clouds and major rain of creds. Hope you have cargo space to spare.

We popped a good 20 of them a day or two back, none of them dropped anything.

 

[MossyStone48]

RNGesus doesn't love you. The odds of a loot cloud should be 1 in 5.
there is a chance one did drop and you guys blew right past it or it was hidden behind/inside the body of the Isanth.

 

[Blaza612]

RNGesus doesn't love you. The odds of a loot cloud should be 1 in 5.
there is a chance one did drop and you guys blew right past it or it was hidden behind/inside the body of the Isanth.

That is some terrible luck. >_>

 

[Madman198237]

It's really easy to miss those darn loot clouds. Really easy. We need something more logical.
As in, storages are randomly filled with random things, instead of random piles of 2000 pink advanced armor heptas dropping off of a three-block turret horizontal drive or something. Also, less pink armor, please.

 

[MossyStone48]

I can't do much about that. TBH loot clouds have always been a pain. Yeah, easy to miss but an auto-sorting cargo system can net you a box specifically for stuff to trash and another stuff that sells 'OK' like terrain bits.

And that's not pink armor. It's lightish red. X3

The loot is completely random. I don't know of a way to exclude items from being possible loot. In fact people find stuff in loot that's not available otherwise like deathstar cores. I think those are gone for good now but I used to collect them.

 

[Gonzalo]

Something that helps a lot is starter ships. GenXnova's starter ships are really nooby friendly and help me get into the game quickly. However many server have complete and utter dogsh*t starter ships or no ship at all, like the admins are doing you a favour or something.

 

[Blaza612]

Something that helps a lot is starter ships. GenXnova's starter ships are really nooby friendly and help me get into the game quickly. However many server have complete and utter dogsh*t starter ships or no ship at all, like the admins are doing you a favour or something.

Now while a starter ship is always useful, will that be able to draw a new player in? The thing is, when a new player joins and sees what they have, they'll start to make their first ship and explore the mechanics, learning as they build. With a starter ship however, it removes that first step. It simply brings the player to the forefront, and while for an older and more experienced player that'd be great, as it speeds up the start, but for a new player the best thing that they could first experience is that slow learning as to how to build their ships, and get truly attached to their ships. As such, for servers a starter ship is perfect, as it allows players to compete quicker, but for local servers or single-player the lack of a starter ship would be more beneficial. Ultimately it's the environment and circumstances that would determine whether a starter ship is really a good idea.

 

[Madman198237]

Not really. Perhaps servers should invest some time into a simplified ship that is given to them upon spawn, and is constantly updated. Inside this ship could be hallways of tutorials and such which teach the newbie how to play the game, and then some directions to complete a basic "quest" that will gain the new player some minerals and directions to a particular shop/trade station, at which point they will be taken inside and shown how to work a factory, then cut loose and given a new, reasonably sized (The tutorial ship would have to be huge relative to most starting vessels) mining/fighting vessel and told to avoid pirates or something. Or directed to something else.

 

[Blaza612]

Not really. Perhaps servers should invest some time into a simplified ship that is given to them upon spawn, and is constantly updated. Inside this ship could be hallways of tutorials and such which teach the newbie how to play the game, and then some directions to complete a basic "quest" that will gain the new player some minerals and directions to a particular shop/trade station, at which point they will be taken inside and shown how to work a factory, then cut loose and given a new, reasonably sized (The tutorial ship would have to be huge relative to most starting vessels) mining/fighting vessel and told to avoid pirates or something. Or directed to something else.

I say make the tutorial optional. A prompt will come up that asks the player if they want to do the tutorial you detailed, and they can either choose that, or stick with the more basic yet more powerful prompt tutorial thing. And for any further confusion, there's always the video tutorials for them to fall back on.

 

[Madman198237]

No, the idea is for a starting ship.

You give them a starting ship that details everything they might interact with, send them through a basic mission sort of thing that has them perform basic operations that the game will require. The starter ship should be really open internally, so that new players can see examples of efficient power design and some interior, see systems layouts and just overall get a feel for design and function.

Then could come some sort of extended tutorial: send them into a protected sector/group of sectors and have them mine, fight (A harmless target, I'd think) and then proceed to a station that introduces them to station-based things.
Obviously, the tutorial would be optional, and it would have to be constantly updated.

 

[sayerulz]

The old system honestly really sucked. You really are looking through rose tinted glasses here. It used to be:

1: salvage abandoned station

2: sell uneeded blocks

3: build endgame ship

4: repeat as needed

That was simply not a good system.

What the problem we have now, if you ask me, is too many resource types. We have a huge number of ore types, and sources of them are scattered around, so you need to spend an incredibly annoying amount of time flying around looking for them, because building even a very basic ship requires some of all of them, especially if you intend on painting it more than one color.

What I think we need are a number of basic, high supply, high demand resources that are found in all asteroid types. these are used to make basic components, such as hull, thrusters, power, shields, and weapons. These are your sort of bread-and-butter materials, that you need the most of.

Then, there would be more rare, but less highly demmanded resources that are used to make advanced things like cloakers/jammers, jump gates, effect modules, and advanced armor. So they would be something that a new player could easily live without, but that a warring faction would definitely want, and that would grant considerable advantage.

These would be found in very small amounts anywhere, so if someone was willing to spend a lot of time roaming around, they could build these high-tech components. However, they can also be found concentrated in certain rare areas, in asteroids and, once passive resource generation comes out, as yields from certain planets.

Ideally, this would encourage conflict, although until other mechanics are put in place, it may also encourage endless expansion away from other factions.

 

[Blaza612]

No, the idea is for a starting ship.

You give them a starting ship that details everything they might interact with, send them through a basic mission sort of thing that has them perform basic operations that the game will require. The starter ship should be really open internally, so that new players can see examples of efficient power design and some interior, see systems layouts and just overall get a feel for design and function.

Then could come some sort of extended tutorial: send them into a protected sector/group of sectors and have them mine, fight (A harmless target, I'd think) and then proceed to a station that introduces them to station-based things.
Obviously, the tutorial would be optional, and it would have to be constantly updated.

Ah, I see now. Yes, that's a great idea. :p

However I'd still make it optional, for the odd player that doesn't want to do tutorials.

1: salvage abandoned station

Imma just quote myself:

I didn't give the specifics for the rate at which derelicts give actual parts, but I'd guess it'd be somewhere around 70 - 80% scrap.

:p

That was simply not a good system.

That's why, as I said to jstenholt, I'm looking back, and going mid-way, so to speak.The old system wasn't perfect, and the current system is far from perfect, so I'm getting the best of both worlds, by making it that the most resources one will get is from a pirate station, which ultimately should be a pretty significant undertaking. Derelict Stations really wouldn't be that good, as you'd be looking around trying to find the few blocks that aren't just scrap.

What the problem we have now, if you ask me, is too many resource types

Having a lot of resource types isn't necessarily a problem, it's more how they're used, which you do detail.

because building even a very basic ship requires some of all of them, especially if you intend on painting it more than one color.

And this is where the problem comes in, since no matter what, you just need every single ore.

What I think we need are a number of basic, high supply, high demand resources that are found in all asteroid types. these are used to make basic components, such as hull, thrusters, power, shields, and weapons. These are your sort of bread-and-butter materials, that you need the most of.

Then, there would be more rare, but less highly demmanded resources that are used to make advanced things like cloakers/jammers, jump gates, effect modules, and advanced armor. So they would be something that a new player could easily live without, but that a warring faction would definitely want, and that would grant considerable advantage.

Indeed we do, and Schine is already starting to go down that path (keyword: starting) with changing the armour hardening process to ONLY need fertikeen.

These would be found in very small amounts anywhere, so if someone was willing to spend a lot of time roaming around, they could build these high-tech components. However, they can also be found concentrated in certain rare areas, in asteroids and, once passive resource generation comes out, as yields from certain planets.

However, Schine had a plan for having so many ore types. That plan was distribution. Schine is working on creating an actual economy where players are commonly trading between each other, whether they be faction-scale or just player scale. To achieve this, they're going to have an un-even distribution of resources across the various galaxies, so as to create a need for players to trade. And if Schine changes it so that ships don't require every single ore type, then this distribution can be achieved because it'll mean that in order to have the highest quality ships, you need to trade or go to war with other factions.