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    Ixalite's RP Innovations

    Discussion in 'Logic' started by Ixalite, Jun 26, 2018.

    1. Ixalite

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      This thread will be devoted to use of logic functions to apply to RP friendly mechanisms. Many mechanisms shown here may appear in the Community Content section, and eventually in a shipyard thread.

      While I am reasonably able to use the game's logic functions, many of the functions demonstrated here will be old news to many players, but may give some of you ideas for ways to improve your own ships.

      The first item I would like to show off here is a function that has been a holy grail of ship design for years: true popup turrets.
      BEFORE:
      [​IMG]
      AFTER:
      [​IMG]
      CLOSEUP:
      [​IMG]
      These rapid-firing AMC turrets retract neatly into the hull of the parent ship. While they must be "alligned" first, through use of the structure menu (a laborious process at best) and should be deactivated when not in use, they provide a respectable degree of anti-missile firepower while permitting the parent ship to retain the artistic lines of the original Hiigaran Torpedo Frigate on which it is closely based.
       
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    2. Ixalite

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      [​IMG]
      My own standard docking protocol was developed following the offhand mention that SMD docking only benefits pirates wishing to be able to easily dock with and board your ships. To answer this, we have the extendable SMD docking arm. Somewhat difficult to construct, and with the disadvantage of occasionally (in astronaut mode) activating the force-fields within the ship, these docking arms can be concealed behind an armored door. preparing the docking arm requires either one or two button pushes, and a 30 second wait.
       
      #2 Ixalite, Jun 28, 2018
      Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
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    3. Admiralkio

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      Very nice.

      The docking arm in particular caught my eye. Wireless logic involved with that or some trickery i'm not quite understanding?
       
    4. Ixalite

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      wireless logic is used to activate the forcefield, yes. There are lots of fun applications for logic!
       
    5. Admiralkio

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      I habitually avoid wireless logic since last i heard it was broken, although that may have changed.

      ...then again, it's easy enough to defeat people boarding by using a non-standard USD.
       
    6. Ixalite

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      Yes, but then you can't dock to other people's ships for RP purposes.
       
    7. MChain

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      Pirate problem can be more or less easily solved with plex covers above USDs. and with such docking tube you can't dock your ship to any other one since the tube is a slave entity, not a root one. Or you need to perform some weird dock transitions via pickups to change root and be able to dock with the tube.

      Retractable AMTs are quite nice though, but I'd stick to Alter's slim turrets (https://starmadedock.net/content/how-to-make-a-very-low-profile-sexy-anti-missile-turret.4508/). Just to reduce entity count since you get a to of trouble on weaker PCs when the entity count is high.
       
    8. Ixalite

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      Your criticism of the docking tube is well placed. While you can dock TO the tube well enough, it turns out that you are correct that there are issues with using the tube to dock to other ships or stations. Additionally, it seems docking two ships with docking tubes together is impossible. Since docking umbilicals are part of the staple set-dressing of science fiction and real space travel alike, I am inclined to call this a low priority bug.
      On top of that, cameras installed on docked entities always look in the direction of the core, not the direction they are facing.

      Rather than discard the premise and make every ship have a permanent, extended docking arm however, I am going to let gameplay take one for the team in the aesthetics department, at least until the game catches up with its promise. Once there is a way to have an extendable dock which functions (other than allowing non-extendable docks to dock to it) I will change to that. Otherwise, I call it an upgrade over a simple air-lock.

      On an amusing note, in an attempt to get the extendable docking rings to work with each-other, I tried a novel approach which SHOULD work, but instead fails hilariously. If you install a tractor beam on a docked entity, and hook it up with an area trigger to activate the beam when there is something in that area, logically it SHOULD make a "grapple" arm that can grab on to ships, and not let go until ordered.
      What actually happens is that the ship being grappled drifts through the ship with the tractor beam, and the two entities clip inside one another to a rather extreme degree. Certainly useful for boarding actions, but not for peaceful docking.

      I am familiar with those turrets, and while they are good work, I have a couple of problems with them. Suffice it to say that I prefer turrets which appear to have two barrels to actually fire from both.
      If any computers are so challenged that they are unable to handle an extra 6x entities for my ships, I do not recommend any of my modern designs. While I aim to keep my ships under 100 entities if possible, I make no promises for larger ship projects.
       
    9. MChain

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      With a minor modification they do, and get a nice asymmetrical design at the same time... Check my Brest and Gremyaschy ;-) Plus, friends and me were making some tests, and usually 8 AMS are too weak to repel a missile swarm. We ended up having 32 turrets on a heavy cruiser and nearly 70 on a battleship. This makes every entity count even on a rather good PC.

      You know, if you could add a pickup point into the design, you COULD dock to other ships (but not stations) by pulling them into your docking tube. Collision docking works VERY bad. |Of course, due to the current docking tree you can't dock via tubes on both ships, one needs to have a fixed docking point.

      Instead of a permanent docking arm on a ship you could have a docking point on a more exposed part of the hull. Or cover the surrounding area with plexdoors to reveal the dock only when it is needed.
       
    10. Ixalite

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      I agree that is a possibility, however many designs make that less convenient.

      As to missile swarms, I'm not a competitive designer, but rather one who focuses on RP elements. A few light turrets are more than enough for the ships of the size I am working with. My largest ship of the new series, the "Enlightenment" only has 8 twin-barrel AMC defense guns. While these are slightly larger than your recommended point defense guns (2x2 with full support) they are not expected to render the ship immune to missiles, but rather give her a chance against foes in her weight class.

      [​IMG]

      On a note of continuing the innovations thread, Here is the EDF-BC400a Enlightenment. The feature I am demoing is the 45 degree turrets.

      Many times players want to get the most out of their turrets angles' of fire, without altering the lines of an existing hull. In this case, you might find that creating a flat plane at 45 degrees, making a hole in it, and docking an entity to a rotator can give you the option of installing a turret which matches the angle of your ship.
      [​IMG]
      This way, all seven of the ship's main gun turrets can fire forward, while also leaving me five point defense guns which can bear on that angle as well. (most angles of attack against this ship are covered by five point defense turrets)

      While I realize that turrets have not accidentally shot each-other for years now, nonetheless considering unorthodox methods of turret installation can lead to ships with both interesting and functional designs.
      --- Updated post (merge), Jul 3, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 3, 2018 ---
      Finally, one more addition for today:
      As a proof of concept, I have built a rail-mountable orbital turret. The idea is that you have a "drone bay" on your ship, with multiple point defense turrets docked to it. When danger threatens, you can open the drone bay, and have the turrets ride out on a pickup rail and fly a ring around your ship. Rather than wait and build this into a large, RP oriented ship, I will just post a picture of my proof of concept. It works, but you will want to make the "orbit" path prettier than just a square.

      [​IMG]
       
    11. MChain

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      Hmmm... The idea with 45-degree-turrets is really good. And you need literally 1 well-hidden entity to rotate any turrets you wish... That's not only nice but functional

      Orbital turrets... You mean thrusterless drones? Could you upload the blueprint to explore?

      BTW, have you played a rather old Homeworld-like game O.R.B Off-World Resource Bases? The Enlightenment looks very close to one of the Alyssian capitals from that game.
      [​IMG]
       
    12. MrGrey1

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      I've been testing this recently. A pickup point rail can actually pickup a docker that is inside a solid block of any other type of block. The docker can be buried and completely hidden, if the pirate knows it's there he can put the pickup point through and attach to the docker. The only way to effectively counter the pickup point pirate is to have active logic continually disconnecting the docker like so.

      Sorry for thread diversion again Ixalite. I like your stuff. Using force fields on that docking tube is a great idea.

      Keep in mind the new mechanic of depowering anything that's docker gets destroyed this could be risky if you're putting multiple turrets on one docking point. Puts all your eggs in one basket.
       
    13. MChain

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      I know, but if the docker is hidden sufficiently deep, somewhere near the reactor, that can be pretty safe.
       
    14. Ixalite

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      starmade-gif-0006.gif
      In answer to the issue of SMD being a security flaw, but also a useful docking standard, I give you.... the retractable docking cover.
       

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    15. Ixalite

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      and using the same technology: The retractable heavy weapons turret! starmade-gif-0008.gif
      The door closes after the turret retracts, but the .gif is a bit short.
       
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    16. ProudHebrew1990

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      Jul 25, 2018
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      Nice spacecraft boats! i appreciate!!!
       
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