How viable with current code?

[MacThule]

Question for those SM veterans with a good understanding of the game (or maybe Lancake or even schema if they find the time):

How viable (technically; obviously the proprietary & financial issues are another matter entirely) would it be for another Java program to call up an iteration of SM for clients, dump them from whatever else they were doing into a giant SM sector with fleets & stations being called up from pre-existing values given by the other program, and have players basically spawn next to the core of a ship in their fleet they pre-selected?

As in... would it at all viable without a complete massive rebuild to incorporate SM as a component of another game? As in... a browser-based space RTS? Like players build ships from lists of available SM ships & stations (built in creative mode and ported out as 3D models for convenient viewing from the other program's GUI), and when fleets encounter on the RTS map, SM is called and given all the fleet values, and when the battle is resolved, SM returns the RTS client a value. Too big a stretch?

 

[Brokengauge]

So...you want to know if it'd be possible to have starmade run, do the battle math, and spit the resulting numbers into another game? Wouldn't it be easier to simply program the RTS with the same variables as SM? I mean, all the info is attached to the ships themselves. The block info is also right there in the configs...

Also, it would he really cool to see an RTS that used starmade assets. Though I think SM's final form is going to incorporate a lot of RTS elements

 

[Edymnion]

Yeah, at that point you're better off just making an RTS from scratch.

 

[MacThule]

So...you want to know if it'd be possible to have starmade run, do the battle math, and spit the resulting numbers into another game?

No. Starmade would need to return a value, but not based on math being done in the background. Based on the results of either a PvE or PvP battle.

dump them from whatever else they were doing into a giant SM sector with fleets & stations being called up from pre-existing values given by the other program, and have players basically spawn next to the core of a ship in their fleet they pre-selected?

Have you ever played Sword of The Stars, or MOO2? There are several good RTS games out there that involve a "tactical phase" that calls what is essentially a separate engine. This sends the player from the GUI they are using to control a grand-strategy 4x or RTS, into an entirely different GUI and completely different game than they have been playing, but with units and resources determined by the calling program. When combat is engaged, players have the option to personally take command of their fleet.

I'm wondering how viable it would be for Starmade to essentially fulfill the role of the tactical phase for a grand strategy game (and unit design mode as well). A lot of SM veterans are RTS fans and want more RTS out of SM, others want more PvP, others want better design options. Honestly, it does poorly as an RTS so far, moderately for PvP, and very well for designing ships and stations.

Well, many space RTS games also involve a strong unit design element. So you design the systems of your various ships, build fleets, and the command those tactically. Starmade is awesome for 4x/RTS players who enjoy the unit design process, but deeply lacks in ability to use those units for anything other than show. But SM is written to easily port 3D models of things players design into other programs through a fairly standard interface.

So I was playing some Emperor of The Fading Suns, for old times' sake, and the game's very simplistic 3D model portaits for some of its advanced units got me to wondering, what if another game, a dedicated, Java-based, multiplayer space RTS/4x, could be developed that would allow players to design their units and installations in SM creative mode, save those designs and have SM feed 3D models complete with power, thrust, weapon and shield data back to the map-based RTS side of the client package. Those units could then be used as assets for the RTS side of the client package which (as you both mention) could calculate battle outcomes itself very directly based on the unit statistics, unless one of the fleets entering combat contained a ship that one of the players involved has selected as "my ship" or "fly manually" or some such, at which point instead of simply crunching the numbers and giving the players back a result, the game would allow the player(s) to get directly involved with determining the outcome of the battle. This would be appealing within the RTS context because AI sucks, so a player commanding the capital ship of a fleet would probably wreck his opposition like a hero unless a ship (or ships?) on the opposing side was controlled by an opposing player (or players?). Meaning that unless you have overwhelming odds in your favor, your best bet is personally oversee the battle - in the tactical mode (i.e. a modified iteration of Starmade) - to avoid losses.

EDIT: Wow, almost forgot! This is not some kind of suggestion that Starmade might abandon being an awesome sandbox design game. In fact the entire idea hinges upon Starmade continuing to be that and being even better at that over time, but simply looking at the potential to ALSO use it as a component in other things.

 

[Gasboy]

Wouldn't it work better if the program used the .smd3 files without requiring StarMade to be running at all? Or maybe include a StarMade-lite, or SMEdit-lite, program inside this new game, so that people could design ships from pre-made elements.

So that people with SM could design the ship fully, and people who don't wish to get SM or who are unwilling to do so, could still get some design buzz without having to get into the nitty-gritty details.

 

[MacThule]

include a StarMade-lite, or SMEdit-lite, program inside this new game, so that people could design ships from pre-made elements.

This is really what I was thinking - not having a game call Starmade as such as the client is now, but a modified, pared-down version of SM fitted for special use. Wondering how much modification would likely be needed to adapt Starmade for such a purpose. Because it would be a fantastic interface for a variety of such games along the RTS-4x spectrum.

 

[Gasboy]

This is really what I was thinking - not having a game call Starmade as such as the client is now, but a modified, pared-down version of SM fitted for special use. Wondering how much modification would likely be needed to adapt Starmade for such a purpose. Because it would be a fantastic interface for a variety of such games along the RTS-4x spectrum.

It's likely doable. The proprietary and financial stuff will be your limiters, I think.