Help with effects 2.0

    Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Energywelder, Jul 18, 2018.

    1. Energywelder

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      So, i've looked around, i actually tried before coming here: What do the new effects do? Heat active vs passive? EM active vs Passive? Kinetic Active vs Passive?
       
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    2. Briaireous

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      The effects should, iirc, change the damage type caused by the weapons. By adding these effects , the weapons would deal more damage to certain entities like shield, armor, and system. As for active vs passive, I have no clue
       
    3. Cluwne

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      Weapon update was supposed to bring the damage types with it. Electromagnetic, kinetic and heat.
      It was also supposed to make certain blocks and mechanics vulnerable to certain type, case in point - shields and EM damage.
      Weapon tertiaries are supposed to shift weapon's damage towards certain damage type.
      On the receiving end, defense chamber tree have new nodes for each damage type that increase resistance to one type.
      All in all, a neat system on paper, implemented out the ass in practice as usual.
       
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    4. Scypio

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      Only one thing it does currently is a rock paper scissor mechanic if your opponent have defensive chambers against this type.
       
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    5. Dire Venom

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      I would like to see different armor blocks being resistant to different damage types instead of a paper/s/r mechanic imo
       
    6. DeepspaceMechanic

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      Thought I'd rather ask here than to start a new thread in Game Support.


      Is there a more definite answer at this point as to what are the specific effects of the Heat, Kinetic, and EM damage types?


      I was too lazy/uninterested so far to experiment with either the new tertiary effect systems or the basic weapons (which seem to have ratios of the aforementioned three damage types ascribed to them by default too).
       
      #6 DeepspaceMechanic, Feb 2, 2019
      Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
    7. Sachys

      Sachys Hermit.

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      Far as I can tell:

      HEAT is the same as explosive.
      KINETIC seems to be halfway between overdrive and punching / pierce.
      and
      EM just seems to be ion.
       
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    8. Dr. Whammy

      Dr. Whammy Executive Constructologist of the United Star Axis

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      This "here's a new feature; go figure it out..." approach that Schine has is really getting old. This is part of the reason why so much of their player base has jumped ship.

      With regard to effects, they really need to do a better job explaining this and create some sort of in-game reference to let you know just how effective your weapon is against a certain block type.

      Up to this point, I've just been slapping kinetic on everything because it "seems" to be the most effective against heavy armor; though I could be totally wrong in this assessment.
       
      #8 Dr. Whammy, Feb 2, 2019
      Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
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    9. Spartan-228

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      My experience indicates kinetic is the way to go against armor. It is hard to tell if heat is better against system blocks or not. And given the things I have been building of late and what they will be used for, I have had no good opportunity to do a lot of testing with EM. But unlike Ion it dose still damage armor when at 100% and I have not noted any apresible difrance in bringing down shields compared to the others, but like I said I have not tested it as much.
       
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    10. DeepspaceMechanic

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      SachysSachys Dr. WhammyDr. Whammy Spartan-228Spartan-228

      Thank you all.

      I have a few other question marks about weapons if any of you have/would like to share this kind of info.

      I seem to recall that the explosive effect used to increase the blast radius of missiles and cannon projectiles regardless if they hit armor or system blocks - while Pierce and Punch were specialized on armor - so if the new Heat and Kinetic effects both increase armor damage, than what's with the claim that each of the new damage types favor one of the armor/system/shield trio?

      Is it that each have a minor/moderate/severe effect on each type of these three possible targets? Do any of you guys have a full table of the specific combinations?

      Also could someone provide a word of elaboration about how the new damage types or the different weapon combos relate to the new "acid damage" and "over-penetration" mechanics?
       
      #10 DeepspaceMechanic, Feb 3, 2019
      Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
    11. Dr. Whammy

      Dr. Whammy Executive Constructologist of the United Star Axis

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      I just did a test with a 1463 block cannon with a size-matched beam secondary and effect for all three effect types in a 1:1:1 ratio. Damage per projectile was just over 2.6 million.

      My weapons tests typically include the use of glass, crystal armor and other armors as a sort of ballistic media. Blue crystal armor is my preferred media type because its translucency allows you to better see weapon penetration. Also, I like the color blue; it's purrrty :rolleyes:. I also have shielded targets set up for variable levels of regeneration and capacity. For this shield test, I'm using a 10 million shield capacity with 100K regen/sec.


      Here are my findings.

      VS SHIELDS
      Using Kinetic yielded roughly 2.5 million damage as expected. Thermal did 2.5 million as well. Surprisingly, EM scored the same as the other two at 2.5 million. There is no appreciable difference in anti-shield performance with any individual effect type.


      VS ARMOR
      All three effect types exhibited roughly the same level of penetration and expansion. Against crystal armor, the thermal effect made a slightly different expansion "pattern" but had the same level of expansion and penetration as the other two. At first glance there does not appear to be an appreciable difference between the three effects against armor.


      GLASS TEST
      1463 1 1 1 GLass.jpg


      BLUE CRYSTAL ARMOR TEST
      1463 1 1 1 Crystal.jpg


      I'd say we're looking a series of incomplete features; specifically acid effect, armor damage negation and projectile width.
      Cannon output width does not seem to affect penetration and acid effect radius in the way they anticipated.
      Examples:

      The cannons on some of these fighters have enough power to pierce 5+ blocks of adv. armor on a 5x5x5m solid block.
      fighters2.jpg ...However, they only make a "dent" one meter deep in 5m thick adv. armor a full size target.

      This light escort will completely demolish the 5x5x5m target.
      Axis SD1.jpg ...but at times won't even dent the armor of the large target, despite having nearly 10 times the firepower as one of the fighters.

      I've experimented with cannons with damage ranges between 40 and 40 million. They do great against shields provided you can hit the target but no matter how powerful the weapon is on paper, there does not seem to be a way to increase the penetration of a cannon beyond a certain limit imposed by the acid effect.

      Hopefully you guys find this info useful.

       
      #11 Dr. Whammy, Feb 3, 2019
      Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
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    12. Sachys

      Sachys Hermit.

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      So we can sum this up as:

      "Weapons are a right wonky load of gubbins that aint quite right."
       
    13. MilitantCollective

      MilitantCollective Ares Initiative Dev

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      The cones of expansion are a cfg option, we changed them in Ares [FoW] to be more realistic with a cannon having more internal damage explosion and cmissile more external.
       
      #13 MilitantCollective, Feb 3, 2019
      Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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    14. kiddan

      kiddan Cobalt-Blooded Bullet Mirror

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      What's the damage output without an effect applied? They could be functioning as damage bonuses so long as someone doesn't have a chamber defending against that type. Essentially playing cards for space ships.
       
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    15. nulitor

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      I believe there is a way: make like 50 different cannons with different computers all in a line and fire all of them at once(either logic or them being on a turret).
      Or you could just use beam like the others.
       
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    16. Dr. Whammy

      Dr. Whammy Executive Constructologist of the United Star Axis

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      Regarding multiple outputs; I've already tried that. I was not impressed with the result in comparison to other weapons with a similar setup. Also, not a fan of the the size of the system in comparison to its damage output capability.

      Regarding beams; You're welcome to use whatever you like but the others here did not ask about 'METAs'. They asked about tertiary effects and acid damage. Besides; cannons do have their uses; as do missiles.

      In any case, MilitantCollectiveMilitantCollective has already clarified the issue. The cannon penetration (and most likely, others) can be modified via config for more realistic damage effects if desired.
       
      #16 Dr. Whammy, Feb 4, 2019
      Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
    17. Sachys

      Sachys Hermit.

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      Once people start discovering more of the depths of the rules system etc, we need to get schine to make all the good, sensible stuff default, not derpy!
       
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    18. Dr. Whammy

      Dr. Whammy Executive Constructologist of the United Star Axis

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      Agreed. I'll have to take a closer look at the rules when I have time As of now, they are very similar to scripting language or rule sets for MS Outlook. "If X is Y and if A is B, then Z..." Simple but not...
       
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    19. MilitantCollective

      MilitantCollective Ares Initiative Dev

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      Sachys that's our hope with the Initiative is to create the game everyone's wanted with the ability to build with their space legos

      We're 3800 lines of code into our rulesets now
       
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    20. Crimson-Artist

      Crimson-Artist Wiki Administrator

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      Honestly it looks like none of the effects work atm. Its like the Mass Effect 3 endings in here. 3 colored hollow options.

      They might have their functionality put in when the universe update goes live.
       
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