Read by Council Factory progression block

[Raisinbat]

I think a lot of the game's trading problems can be solved by simply adding 1 block to the game:

Factory Optimizer

• Increases items created per cycle by +0.01% per optimizer (rounded down to integer) linked to factory, without increases resource consumption. Having 10.000 optimizers will double the output with the same input.
• Increases time per factory cycle to 1.001^n (Exponential growth in factory cycle time with more optimizers added) where n is the number of optimizer blocks.
  
• Block is limited to a single recipe when it is created, so you cannot switch what recipe the optimizer works with
• Block MUST be expensive (for example 10.000 of EACH ore/crystal capsules per block, or limited special resource) not another cheap disposal block like factory enhancers.

(Values are just made up, what matters is linear vs exponential)

So you get linear growth in extra items made but exponential growth in the time it takes to produce those items, making you get more items for the same materials but the factory becomes slower. You can add factory enhancers to raise the number of items, processing millions of items per cycle, but cycle taking a real life week.

What this would mean is you end up with large specialized stations that handle a single recipe, like a sertise refinery, with each faction wanting to optimize a select few recipes.

This creates the incentive for trading: Faction A may be older than Faction B and have large efficient sertise + shield capacitor factories, but Faction B instead specializes in hylat + cannon barrels. Both factions now benefit from trading with each other; if they are at 200% output per input A can trade all its hylat to B and still get 150% output, while B keeps 50%.

The slowdown in speed is necessary to limit market dominance by a single faction: At some point you reach a limit to how fast you can process materials; 1.000.000 ores may be a lot, but a server with multiple factions would produce a lot more if you're at 2 month cycle time. (Before you say this is insane, EVE Titans take 47 real life days to build) This makes setup cost per item rise exponentially as well, letting smaller factions enter the same market, offering the same price but making less money per item.

It also adds an incentive not to hide yourself somewhere ridiculous; people need to find you in order to trade with you.

If combined with passive buy/sell orders this should create a complete trading system for players who just want to fly around buying and selling as a means of making money.

 

[Nickizzy]

Your thread link worked bro. This would be a cool item for the mid to late game where you want automated mass production. You would need a system so the factory never unloaded and restarted, otherwise it would be useless. Each optimizer should cost lots of mesh, because that's what we always have to much of these days. Besides basic hull and power caps, they aren't used for anything(?). Crystal is used in everything else. I don't want to set values, but I agree with the exponential and linear ideas.

It can't be too expensive and effective, or it will become way to dense and something you get one and done, but it can't be to cheap and weak, or it will just end up needing a massive cube of them everywhere.

 

[Raisinbat]

You would need a system so the factory never unloaded and restarted, otherwise it would be useless

I'm pretty sure the factories work even if they're offloaded, but yeah that's reeeally important :p

 

[Lukwan]

If this idea proves to be sound each factory should have a selector tab for different modes. Normal mode would be the current default (fast & inefficient) or a slower 'efficient' mode that uses less Mats but is slower. Depending on the choice the factory would decide to use the optimizer or not. Then the factory could essentially switch the optimizer on or off via logic to save on power and accommodate non-optimized recipes.

Could this mechanic be dialed in so that the optimizer block (or mode) helps to accelerate the early-game grind? Either way I am curious to see if this suggestion has legs. So long as it can't lead to snowballing I would support this.

 

[timmymorrison1]

I'm pretty sure the factories work even if they're offloaded, but yeah that's reeeally important :p

they don't

 

[Lecic]

Doesn't the game use a single, shared factory tick between every single factory to reduce server load?

 

[Nickizzy]

Doesn't the game use a single, shared factory tick between every single factory to reduce server load?

How much would it lag it? Maybe each faction could only have one(x) efficent factory systems, based on how many players they had. More players>more factories.

 

[Raisinbat]

Just keep track of when the cycle is started? I don't think the game actually has a timer for each factory.

 

[nightrune]

I'm pretty sure the factories work even if they're offloaded, but yeah that's reeeally important :p

Factories currently do not work when unloaded.

 

[Nickizzy]

Just keep track of when the cycle is started? I don't think the game actually has a timer for each factory.

1 AF EF per station/plate? It'd just be another power number. Also promotes trading

BTW, they would need to be a constant power draw and not a by the cycle draw. I can imagine month long power build up would need quite a capacity to sate it.

 

[Lecic]

Just keep track of when the cycle is started? I don't think the game actually has a timer for each factory.

Factories definitely share a single unified tick.

 

[Nickizzy]

Lecic

1 AF EF per station/plate? It'd just be another power number. Also promotes trading

BTW, they would need to be a constant power draw and not a by the cycle draw. I can imagine month long power build up would need quite a capacity to sate it.

 

[Nickizzy]

Lecic ? U there? Bump

 

[Lecic]

Lecic ? U there? Bump

If there's a way to accomplish this without causing a ton of new lag, I have no problem with it. I think it'd be a neat way to make trading more valuable, if combined with uneven resource distribution.

 

[Nickizzy]

If there's a way to accomplish this without causing a ton of new lag, I have no problem with it. I think it'd be a neat way to make trading more valuable, if combined with uneven resource distribution.

As for limiting the number of factories, besides one per station, could be based on players in the faction, or territory, or FP.

 

[GRHayes]

I think a lot of the game's trading problems can be solved by simply adding 1 block to the game:

Factory Optimizer

• Increases items created per cycle by +0.01% per optimizer (rounded down to integer) linked to factory, without increases resource consumption. Having 10.000 optimizers will double the output with the same input.
• Increases time per factory cycle to 1.001^n (Exponential growth in factory cycle time with more optimizers added) where n is the number of optimizer blocks.
  
• Block is limited to a single recipe when it is created, so you cannot switch what recipe the optimizer works with
• Block MUST be expensive (for example 10.000 of EACH ore/crystal capsules per block, or limited special resource) not another cheap disposal block like factory enhancers.

(Values are just made up, what matters is linear vs exponential)

So you get linear growth in extra items made but exponential growth in the time it takes to produce those items, making you get more items for the same materials but the factory becomes slower. You can add factory enhancers to raise the number of items, processing millions of items per cycle, but cycle taking a real life week.

What this would mean is you end up with large specialized stations that handle a single recipe, like a sertise refinery, with each faction wanting to optimize a select few recipes.

This creates the incentive for trading: Faction A may be older than Faction B and have large efficient sertise + shield capacitor factories, but Faction B instead specializes in hylat + cannon barrels. Both factions now benefit from trading with each other; if they are at 200% output per input A can trade all its hylat to B and still get 150% output, while B keeps 50%.

The slowdown in speed is necessary to limit market dominance by a single faction: At some point you reach a limit to how fast you can process materials; 1.000.000 ores may be a lot, but a server with multiple factions would produce a lot more if you're at 2 month cycle time. (Before you say this is insane, EVE Titans take 47 real life days to build) This makes setup cost per item rise exponentially as well, letting smaller factions enter the same market, offering the same price but making less money per item.

It also adds an incentive not to hide yourself somewhere ridiculous; people need to find you in order to trade with you.

If combined with passive buy/sell orders this should create a complete trading system for players who just want to fly around buying and selling as a means of making money.

So in essence you want to retard the factory enhancer 99.9% and give it another name.
It won't change a single thing. People will still move away from each other for security and build where they think others won't find them and because the same resources can be pretty much found in any system it will do nothing at all.

The only way you are going to encourage trade in this game is if people will able to gain some sort of control or ability to craft something another person can't but would want.
So unless the game designers start making it where people can have different skills and make something better than others it won't happen and or if resources become spaced out and scares enough where people can actually controls others access to them it isn't going to happen. There is no incentive in other words to trade even under your plan.

If you make resources scares and controllable that will also simply create wars and some group holding it over everyone else in the game that gets powerful enough the rest can't do anything about it.

 

[Nickizzy]

So in essence you want to retard the factory enhancer 99.9% and give it another name.

It's very different: It only increases the amount made per cycle by a small amount. At 1000 it will take squared time, but only give 11 things.
If it needs to be more different, it can increase the time^x*n and reduce the resource cost by n*x%. That way you would NEED to have factory enhancers if you wanted it to work, and they would slow down production.

It won't change a single thing. People will still move away from each other for security and build where they think others won't find them and because the same resources can be pretty much found in any system it will do nothing at all.

You can only build them on stations. Maybe with a special pulse showing that it's a EF Station. You can only make one thing efficiently per station; so unless you have some 2000 stations you will need to trade to get the best benefits.

The only way you are going to encourage trade in this game is if people will able to gain some sort of control or ability to craft something another person can't but would want.

Absolute advantage and having higher Opportunity cost. Read up on economics.

If you make resources scares and controllable that will also simply create wars and some group holding it over everyone else in the game that gets powerful enough the rest can't do anything about it.

Join a faction.

 

[GRHayes]

It's very different: It only increases the amount made per cycle by a small amount. At 1000 it will take squared time, but only give 11 things.
If it needs to be more different, it can increase the time^x*n and reduce the resource cost by n*x%. That way you would NEED to have factory enhancers if you wanted it to work, and they would slow down production.

You can only build them on stations. Maybe with a special pulse showing that it's a EF Station. You can only make one thing efficiently per station; so unless you have some 2000 stations you will need to trade to get the best benefits.

Absolute advantage and having higher Opportunity cost. Read up on economics.

Join a faction.

I stand corrected you want to recreate the factory enhancer, rename it and give it a more complex formula.

Join a faction ~ Nickizzy

If another faction is already started and ahead of you they could effectively prevent any other faction from getting a foot hold and growing.

I know more than enough about economics. Opportunity tied to stations will create a system in which I was talking about where one group gets primary control of a number of resources. Then no other faction will be able to effectively oppose them. If the resources aren't that scarce then people can build the items themselves and will. It isn't like on earth where we have a few spots to get material for making super magnets. We can't simply go to another planet or start system. In this game we can we can travel and if we can get resources without paying for it guarantee that is what will happen.

If you want to ensure trade happens give every person the ability to build one thing that performs better than anyone else can build.
One guy can make better reactors, another make better caps, another make better cannons, .... If you want people to have some sort of choice make it so they can capture what is in a ship. They may not be able to reproduce it but they can use what they take.