Command Chairs, or alternatives in the meantime, and non physical cameras.

    Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by DevajC, Jul 17, 2017.

    ?

    Are command chairs a priority?

    1. Yes, but not right now.

      4 vote(s)
      40.0%
    2. Yes, as soon as possible.

      5 vote(s)
      50.0%
    3. No, they are unnessecary.

      1 vote(s)
      10.0%
    1. DevajC

      Joined:
      Aug 25, 2016
      Messages:
      30
      So I know Command Chairs are a goal in this game, but they probably wont be here for a while because there are more important things to work on. But In my opinion chairs should be top priority because that's where a the whole "build a spaceship" turns into "then fly your spaceship." Right now nothing breaks immersion for me more than having non functional bridges/cockpits, and instead having to make a core room the first part of your ship.

      I and many other players have gotten around this by making the first few blocks of any new ship the "chair", where we can sit and access the core while feeling like its an actual bridge/cockpit, instead of a core room deep in the bowels of a ship with only role-play blocks to add function. But the problem with this is that you have to (normally) plan your whole build before you can even finish making that chair to determine where everything will go:

      How the bridge will lead into the rest of the ship, how to make your hallways because those will have to be made first now, what the exact shape of the ship will look like,how you'll need to limit your creativity by making sure none of your new ship will block your bridge view (because the core has already been placed down.)

      Its just not fun the way it is now. Walking into your ship and piloting it should be smooth and have a sci fi feel. Where there's a real location needed to control the ship, and a separate location to protect the core. Adding chairs wont affect the players who love core rooms either because they can still enter through the core. I hate having to plan my whole build before I can even start. I can use copy paste for small ships but it is crazy annoying to use it for core placement on large ships.

      So here is my proposed alternative until we get chairs: Connecting a faction permission module to a build block will let you press Z and enter unrestricted flight mode.

      And/Or make it so you can move your paste selection with the arrow keys instead of having to click on a block. Right now to copy paste anything that's not square you have to build elaborate lines to determine where your paste will end up, paste it, press undo and edit your line, repeat until you get it right. With lots of flying back and forth if its a large build.

      One other thing id like is non physical camera blocks. This is really not a big deal for most ships but when you try to build small novelty ships which is my favourite thing to do it can be a pain to fit the camera in, while still being able to sit in your wedge and not take up too much room. Right now im trying to make a small space car, only 3x4 interior space with 5 seats. Im going to have to sacrifice either: a side door or one of the front seats. If cameras were non physical and let you sit inside of them it would be amazing. This doesn't really affect anyone and once command chairs are here this will be a non issue but it would be nice anyways. You could make hallway cameras with out being obvious, and put down more aesthetic cameras on your ship without them looking out of place. They would still need to be destructible of course.

      What are your thoughts? In short: Better copy paste, ghost cameras, command chair substitute.
       
    2. Brokengauge

      Joined:
      Mar 3, 2015
      Messages:
      400
      Ghost cameras no: it's a very important design consideration. It sucks for small vehicles as you said, but creativity is about overcoming obstacles, not unlimited freedom.

      Command chairs though? yes! I would love to have several spots where I can control my larger ships (auxiliary control). As it is now, I have to dock a seperate entity for each control chair.

      Better copy/paste? YES! Current changes to the build modenhave greatly improved, but an easier way to set up copy/paste points would greatly reduce the reoccurence of migraines...
       
    3. DevajC

      Joined:
      Aug 25, 2016
      Messages:
      30
      Do you dock an entity and then shift into it with the arrow keys? Hmm I think that basically solves the problem for now! But I have to disagree with the cameras. I dont see any cons to making them invisible. What you said sounds nice, but creativity in a building game shouldnt be like that. it should be about having less obstacles between fun.
       
    4. sayerulz

      sayerulz Big mek

      Joined:
      Nov 16, 2013
      Messages:
      593
      this-is-the-millionth-time-we-have-created-this-thread.jpg
       
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    5. Brokengauge

      Joined:
      Mar 3, 2015
      Messages:
      400
      Yes, I use arrow keys. It works but is far from ideal since it adds a potential for lag. I normally use it in my museum pieces lol.

      I hear you on the cameras. That's simply my opinion on it. I derive enjoyment from finding workarounds such as placing a camera directly behind the hull to keep it a) protected and b) hidden. I don't like bare cameras lol. I have a small shuttle with an exposed camera. I made the design concession to integrate the camera module into the design. I understand that may not be an option for you though, and I sympathize.

      A non physical camera isn't really impeding anything, but if its non physical, and still destructible, why even have a physical camera? If you wanted the decoration factor, you could fake one with any of the pieces available. Bah, it doesn't matter. you have your opinion, and I have mine lol.

      If finding ways around design limitations isn't fun to you, then what do you find fun about building games? Not trying to be facetious or anything. It's one of the biggest draws of the game for me. In fact many of the aspects of design you complained about I found the most satisfying details to work out. I've gone from strictly building on the fly, to working from a rough outline, with the details being determined on the fly lol
       
      #5 Brokengauge, Jul 17, 2017
      Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
    6. DevajC

      Joined:
      Aug 25, 2016
      Messages:
      30

      Nah I do find it fun. Theres a very satisfying feeling when you're trying to make your ship a certain way but you cant for whatever reason, and after rearranging your blocks you find a solution that usually looks better than the original. People say "ships in starmade are never finished" and that's very true. i just feel like cameras are a artificial barrier. I feel that way about alot of blocks actually; like buttons being whole multifaced blocks instead of minecraft buttons, and no 'torches". I guess slab cameras would be a good middle ground though.[/QUOTE]
       
    7. terra mining corp.

      Joined:
      Aug 1, 2015
      Messages:
      471
      You do know you can place a camera block behind a block and still see,i use this method for dockers
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Informative Informative x 1
    8. DevajC

      Joined:
      Aug 25, 2016
      Messages:
      30
      yeah but makes your view clip through the ship unless its shows no interior blocks
       
    9. Brokengauge

      Joined:
      Mar 3, 2015
      Messages:
      400
      If there's empty space in front of the block that's in front of the camera, like a room, then your view will be obstructed by the room. If the only thing in front of your camera is, say, 50 layers of hull, your forward view will be unimpeded, if noticeably recessed.
       
      • Informative Informative x 1
    10. jayman38

      jayman38 Precentor-Primus, pro-tempore

      Joined:
      Jul 13, 2014
      Messages:
      2,270
      I am similar to the OP in that I now like to place the ship core in the floor in front of the primary "chair" wedge for the ship, usually in what could be considered the ship's cockpit. I was happy to break away from the core-room paradigm after "coring" was removed as a key game mechanic. Not that my ships were ever strong enough to be considered for PVP. There's no longer a real need to "protect the core".

      Due to this relatively simple setup, and because I can easily make solid blocks from the core to the front of the craft, even in small builds, I voted for "priority, but later".

      Those command chairs will be fun, and I hope that they will be deeply customizable, so that certain chairs can only control certain things. I'm hoping in the future, after command chairs are implemented, that ships won't even have a core anymore. Everything will be tied to the first command chair, like the way that the core is the central control and master block now.

      Tiny, tiny ships can be fun, but really, this is not the game for that, due to the massive 1-m voxels, unless you scale them up a lot, which makes them not tiny ships anymore.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    11. ZombieMouse

      Joined:
      Jun 29, 2016
      Messages:
      66
      So, it sounds like this is the set-up most people are using now for small role-play ships then:
      starmade-screenshot-0000.png
      This actually works great for small ships as a pseudo-command chair. But, I still voted "Chairs now!" because I feel impatient right now. :)

      starmade-screenshot-0002.png
      From an RP point of view, it bugs me that the pilot vanishes when he's actually flying. Also, I think it would be cool that in a command chair a pilot could be more easily killed, whereas in the core he's pretty safe.

      That brings me to a point about larger ships. If command chairs are vulnerable, people will still have what is effectively a "core room" to protect them, and will still rely on cameras to see. That's all fine by me, but some people might not like losing the safety of a core if they are removed entirely.

      Obviously it would give a pretty strong incentive for multiple-crewed ships if "backup" crew in second or third command chairs were needed to keep control if the pilot was killed.

      Regarding the current set-up:
      starmade-screenshot-0003.png
      I find the existing cameras just look like overhead monitors on the bridge, and can offer good RP views, so I have no problem with them. Not really a fan of the non-physical camera idea. I guess a smaller camera that only takes up a 1/4 block might be useful in some situations where space is at a premium.

      Core view is often useless:
      starmade-screenshot-0005.png
      Chairs now! ;)
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
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