Balancing Starmade [Systems]

    DrTarDIS

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    O think a good way to fix the T:W problem in OP is to just make thrusters massless blocks with a small but constant power drain. The constant drain is just to pre-prevent "thruster armor lul" builds, and should just come directly out of the standard energy formula (which isn't too bad)
     

    Tsnonak

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    O think a good way to fix the T:W problem in OP is to just make thrusters massless blocks with a small but constant power drain. The constant drain is just to pre-prevent "thruster armor lul" builds, and should just come directly out of the standard energy formula (which isn't too bad)
    This is sounding more like a suggestion than information on actual changes, it may be better to direct that directly to QuickFire Thread.
     

    Keptick

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    You mis-quoted me saying that "adv armor is worse than basic" in QF, which is NOT true. I'm just trying to explain to you which armor is better in which situations. You're so freaking stubborn that you even refuse to acknowledge that you don't understand how armor works in QF (which is different than how it does in vanilla). I'm not arguing how things SHOULD work, I'm trying to tell you how it works RIGHT NOW. However, you're so cocooned up in your ideas that you can't even tell the difference.

    Anyways, keep building ships with shitty systems and getting blown up by competent people, I really don't care at this point.
     

    jayman38

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    While allowing all ships to reach the same speed eventually might be realistic, this may be a case where "fun" should override "realism", so that smaller ships can outrun bigger ships before being destroyed. (At least in battles where the smaller ship isn't obliterated with the first salvo.)
     
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    Tsnonak

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    You mis-quoted me saying that "adv armor is worse than basic" in QF, which is NOT true. I'm just trying to explain to you which armor is better in which situations. You're so freaking stubborn that you even refuse to acknowledge that you don't understand how armor works in QF (which is different than how it does in vanilla). I'm not arguing how things SHOULD work, I'm trying to tell you how it works RIGHT NOW. However, you're so cocooned up in your ideas that you can't even tell the difference.

    Anyways, keep building ships with shitty systems and getting blown up by competent people, I really don't care at this point.
    I haven't "mis-quoted" anything.
    I never said "adv armor is worse than basic" in QF ", you did.
    I stopped talking about armor here: https://starmadedock.net/threads/balancing-starmade-systems.31430/#post-378737.
    ... but You seem to have missed that.
    I also "get" what you said, but you also seem to be missing that as well.
    Edit: ... and that the actual curent topic is thrusters.

    Yes, I can see the competence from here.
    You seem to care too much.

    Thank you for your contribution!
     
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    Tsnonak

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    While allowing all ships to reach the same speed eventually might be realistic, this may be a case where "fun" should override "realism", so that smaller ships can outrun bigger ships before being destroyed. (At least in battles where the smaller ship isn't obliterated with the first salvo.)
    Yes, fun is good, actually its best...
    I do not think it should be easy for a 250k+ ships to reach max speed, just that it should not be impossible...
    that the sheer amount of thruster blocks and power consumption is crazy insane at that level!
    That it will require so many blocks that nobody on a multiplayer-server would do it, (unless just for shits n giggles), and that is also fun!
    The sacrifice made should make the ship very weak in all other aspects!

    ... but currently it's not even possible with [Edit: 20k mass], it rolls over and starts going negative.
    A lot of these changes are focused around multiplayer pvp servers, but there are also singleplayers to consider.
    ... btw I am not on about "realism", and keeping it real... I want it to be fun for all, whatever players are doing!
    ... smaller ships will always be able to outrun bigger ones due to maneuverability advantage alone. ;)
     
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    TheDerpGamerX

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    Yes, fun is good, actually its best...
    I do not think it should be easy for a 250k+ ships to reach max speed, just that it should not be impossible...
    that the sheer amount of thruster blocks and power consumption is crazy insane at that level!
    That it will require so many blocks that nobody on a multiplayer-server would do it, (unless just for shits n giggles), and that is also fun!
    The sacrifice made should make the ship very weak in all other aspects!

    ... but currently it's not even possible with 40k mass, it rolls over and starts going negative.
    A lot of these changes are focused around multiplayer pvp servers, but there are also singleplayers to consider.
    ... btw I am not on about "realism", and keeping it real... I want it to be fun for all, whatever players are doing!
    ... smaller ships will always be able to outrun bigger ones due to maneuverability advantage alone. ;)
    It is not impossible to reach, it is very possible. Just put your thrusters at the bottom of the priority list. It allows you to still have the twr and max speed and acceleration, but obviously youd want to tap thrust keys instead of holding them in that case, as any time you have other systems draining a lot of power and try to move theres a solid chance you wont go anywhere. It's a weird workaround which is circumstantial and doesnt work all time time, in addition to just feeling kinda janky and dumb. I'm not opposed to the idea of doing it, power priority is a good thing I'm just saying one shouldn't be forced to do it to achieve at least a 2.0 tmr. The current QF configs nerf thrust really hard, and I know they are taking a second pass at it in order to address this.
     
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    Tsnonak

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    It is not impossible to reach, it is very possible. Just put your thrusters at the bottom of the priority list. It allows you to still have the twr and max speed and acceleration, but obviously youd want to tap thrust keys instead of holding them in that case, as any time you have other systems draining a lot of power and try to move theres a solid chance you wont go anywhere. It's a weird workaround which is circumstantial and doesnt work all time time, in addition to just feeling kinda janky and dumb. I'm not opposed to the idea of doing it, power priority is a good thing I'm just saying one shouldn't be forced to do it to achieve at least a 2.0 tmr. The current QF configs nerf thrust really hard, and I know they are taking a second pass at it in order to address this.
    Last tests it was not possible, it has nothing to do with power-consumtion, it seems to be thruster mechanics...
    unless I have missed something...
    No time now,will test later.

    Edit: judging by your suggestion: "put your thrusters at the bottom of the priority list", I am forced to assume you are reffering to the reactor menu.
    it has nothing to do with power.
    I have managed to aproximate the mass @ which this "rolling over" begins; 15,000 - 20,000 mass.
     
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    The Judge

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    ... smaller ships will always be able to outrun bigger ones due to maneuverability advantage alone. ;)
    Maneuverability doesn't help when there are no obstacles to move around....
     

    Tsnonak

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    advanced armor should provide negative armor, as in placing it down causes adjacent blocks to be weakened and damaged. Not only that, but thrusters should be removed altogether, as they are terrible.
    This is also sounding more like a suggestion than information about actual changes, it may be better to direct that directly to: QuickFire Thread
     
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    Maneuverability doesn't help
    Pseudo- inertia (NOT max speed) should be enough to balance mass/thrust dynamics ... turning, cold-starting and stopping a huge mass should be huge problem (without commensurate huge thrust energies)

    >>> what is not fun about physics? :)
     
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    TheDerpGamerX

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    advanced armor should provide negative armor, as in placing it down causes adjacent blocks to be weakened and damaged. Not only that, but thrusters should be removed altogether, as they are terrible.
    just delete all ships and have people fight with player pistols because ships are too meta pvp for me and ruin my immersion and experience
     
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    Keptick

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    I never said "adv armor is worse than basic" in QF ", you did.
    Except that I didn't!!! I clearly specified that ADVANCED ARMOR IS ONLY WORSE IN A SINGLE LAYER!!!
    That is definitely not the same as flat out saying avanced armor is worse! (which implies that it is worse in every configuration and situation).


    So you ARE mis-quoting me.

    See below:
    In QF adv is worse than basic if it's in a single layer.
    Not my problem if you won't even take the time to read posts correctly. I was truly only trying to help you make a better ship under QF configs, but you are so fucking stubborn that you won't even accept help. Also yes, I do care, because I hate it when people (like you) spread around mis-information that might make new players build worse ships, and ultimately make them leave the game.

    However, it seems like you truly are a lost cause. Just so you know, the ship you posted would get obliterated by a ship of equal mass with proper armor and system distribution. That is not my opinion, it's a fact.
     
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    Keptick

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    just delete all ships and have people fight with player pistols because ships are too meta pvp for me and ruin my immersion and experience
    Only allow rocket launchers as well, because pistols have too high damage, projectile speed, and rof. It's too easy. If only rocket launchers are allowed it'll increase the skill level required in-game. Need to decrease rocket launcher damage by 5x however, so it takes at least 3 direct rocket hits to kill a player. Cause currently rocket launcher do WAY too much damage to atronauts, it's OP (especially with the splash damage).

    Also, astronauts should have pocket jump drives that can cross the galaxy in a single jump, so that they can go visit their friends that don't do PvP at the other end of the galaxy. It would make warp-gates useless, but warp gates are too meta and exploitable already. Should also make astronauts god-mode in their home sector, so that pesky PvPer tryhards can't go and kill everyone with their atronaut exploits.

    Oh sorry, this is a suggestion, I should post it in the QF thread and not here. Plus I'm replying to someone else and giving my opinion, that also breaks the thread rules, sorry.
     
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    Crashmaster

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    Every power system transformation, even if new, doesn't increase dramaticaly nor terribly kill immersion lots. Latency hardly indeed matters so even lag fluctuates.
     

    Tsnonak

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    Please:

    • 2. do not post "suggestions", we are solely looking for information regarding "actual" changes.

    • 3. share facts / thoughts regarding ships & stations you have built to Dev-builds v0.202.6+ or QF-direct specifications.

    • 4. stay on topic.
     

    Nauvran

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    aaand you are just being Emo.

    I fixed it for you yesterday.

    Emo-fire! :LOL:
    and you're just being a straight up dick right now.
    This entire thread is absolutely useless since you won't listen to anything that doesnt agree with your already fixed mindset.
    kindly fuck off the forum and leave the balancing to people that can actually see things from different perspectives
     
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    The Judge

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    An independent and neutral place to share opinions and thoughts about balancing systems, (in terms of the coming changes... [QF-Config]).
    This entire thread is just ridiculous, as there are already other venues for this conversation that lack the absurd and counterproductive restrictions enacted by you. How can such a neutral and unbiased locale for information be useful if there can not be meaningful discussion? If we wish for a correct and/or meaningful idea to be reached, said idea must be proved more relevant and logical than its contenders. It is near impossible to validate a claim without addressing counterarguments and objections, so if this thread's purpose is to be obeyed, it is likely that no relevant conclusion will be reached. It pains me to be this direct and offensive, but we all want StarMade to offer a thoughtful and meaningful gameplay experience, and it is only fair that we, as a community, can have civilized discussions regarding the future of the game. At the same time this is StarMade, so I would be foolish to expect anyone to be civilized........