Balancing Starmade [Systems]

    Tsnonak

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    Thread Concept:

    An independent and neutral place to share opinions and thoughts about balancing systems, (in terms of the coming changes... [QF-Config]).

    I implore:
    Please no debating, we are not looking for reasons why the opinions of others are wrong or invalid...
    Fact is: RP & PvP, as well as "personal" build-styles, often have "almost" nothing in common, lets not debate about it here.

    This thread is for stating your opinion about changes in the QF-Config, not why something someone said is wrong, (re-clarified).

    Please:

    • 2. do not post "suggestions", we are solely looking for information regarding "actual" changes.

    • 3. share facts / thoughts regarding ships & stations you have built to Dev-builds v0.202.6+ or QF-direct specifications.

    • 4. stay on topic.


    [SIS] Test-Ship-List:

    Built to v0.202.13 specs:
    QF-Ghost

    Built to v0.201.378 specs, (internal testing with QF-Configs not included*).
    Boss Hoss
    Canterbury
    Excalibur,(it has layered advanced aromor!)
    Sparrow
    Widow


    Updated: Dec. 3, 2019
    Thrusters have been dramatically changed in the latest Quickfire GIT.
    TWR 5.0

    The changes did not make it into v0.202.16 (dev-build).




    This thread is for sharing information, facts, and opinions, (and not clutter feedback with idle chit-chat).
    Discussion is welcome, not hate-debate.


    I:
    • do praise QuickFire for tackling this long forgotten game breaking problem.
    • will no longer participate in the official feedback thread, the reasons are clear.
    • am testing configs and taking a new direction: [SIS] - Stuck In Space

    Note: This is an unfinished WIP & will be updated as the subject progresses*.
     
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    Ckeeze

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    So we are supposed to share our opinion about the ballance changes, without sharing our opinion. And if someone says anything factually wrong we are supposed to just let it be. We are supposed to give feedback instead to the QF thread only, and at the same time you ask for feedback... great another crybaby clown.

    If you want FACTS, just take a look at the changelogs and test channels in discord...
    If you want OPINIONS wich are NOT FACTS, you can't tell people not to debate, debating is THE ONLY REASON ANYONE WOULD SHARE AN OPINION.
     
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    Tsnonak

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    Way to go dude, you got me.
    Many thanks for your well planned and finely executed hate-post.
    Clearly you belong on a poster for something somewhere.
     

    Ckeeze

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    Way to go dude, you got me.
    Many thanks for your well planned and finely executed hate-post.
    Clearly you belong on a poster for something somewhere.
    It's not my fault your post doesn't make any sense.
     

    Nauvran

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    so this thread is useless

    • do not post "suggestions", we are solely looking for information regarding "actual" changes.
    so we cant say anything because any information about actual changes are suggestions to what should be changed
     
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    TheDerpGamerX

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    Ok, I'll bite.

    My opinion on QF is that the team has done an excellent job so far.
    I do feel like thrust has been nerfed a bit too heavily on larger ships, but they have stated they will be taking another look at thrust soon.
    Armor is quite easy to use in my opinion, I don't really need spaced armor as I have quite a bit of AMS on my ships, so I just use Standard for an outer shell, a thick layer of advanced at the front, and sometimes some basic around important systems in order to minimize acid damage. I only tend to heavily armor the front of my ships, along with some broadside sections for battleships. Most other areas have lighter armor as the only thing that would realistically hit there most commonly would be missiles, but I have quite a bit of AMS so missiles shouldn't be much of a problem.

    Most of my ships have a TWR of 0.4 - 0.7 and also sometimes a max speed chamber. It's not really a problem to me, I don't need to go fast. If I need to get somewhere I just use FTL. I feel like anything that has a 3.0 TWR shouldn't be above 30-50k as once you start hitting 120k or 180k thats more of a heavy battleship, and those usually aren't very fast.
     
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    Keptick

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    Derp's post above pretty much sums it up. Thrust is possibly over-nerfed at the moment, but there should be distinction in max speed between ship sizes.

    Also, you'd be better off using basic hull on your ship since you only have a single layer of armor @Tsonak . In QF adv is worse than basic if it's in a single layer. That is not an opinion btw, it's a fact.

    I can explain the math if necessary, just don't have the time to do it right now.
     
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    Tsnonak

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    they have stated they will be taking another look at thrust soon.
    Good to hear!
    Last I recall they just reworked thrusters...
    I hope they also do something about the massive energy consumption.

    ...currently v0.202.13 + Quickfire Git: TWR 3.0 is not possible for my 40-50k mass test-ship, max TWR = 2.2(Example_03 in [SIS]-faction thread).
    I think "speed caps" should be left up to the SP-player or server admins, the game already has a default cap, (wormholes excluded*).
     
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    Tsnonak

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    you'd be better off using basic hull on your ship since you only have a single layer of armor @Tsonak . In QF adv is worse than basic if it's in a single layer. That is not an opinion btw, it's a fact.
    I prefer to use basic hull for interior and accents, where it seems like it belongs, (or until another "deco-block" for interior walls is made).

    Edited for Keptick, I hope this is better now...
    "In QF adv is worse than basic if it's in a single layer"... is just wierd.

    thanks for the offer, but there is no need for math explanations, i am more interested in actual ship-results.
     
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    there should be distinction in max speed between ship sizes.
    only within an atmosphere or against some resistance ... assuming availability of sufficient power and/or time, only acceleration/deceleration should be different for different masses in a void/gravity-free-vacuum...same max/min speeds are potentially attainable.
     

    Keptick

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    I prefer to use basic hull for interior and accents, where it seems like it belongs, (or until another "deco-block" for interior walls is made).

    "In QF adv is worse than basic"... is just wierd.

    thanks for the offer, but there is no need for math explanations, i am more interested in actual ship-results.
    I did specify "in a single layer". Adv is significantly better than basic when there's more than 1 one layer since it benefits from exponential damage reductions. That's why I proposed to explain the math, because no offense, but you clearly don't know/understand how armor works in QF...
     
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    Tsnonak

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    I did specify "in a single layer". Adv is significantly better than basic when there's more than 1 one layer since it benefits from exponential damage reductions. That's why I proposed to explain the math, because no offense, but you clearly don't know/understand how armor works in QF...
    Yes, you did... already state that, I am unsure of the relevance to repeat it, it changes nothing.
     
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    Keptick

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    Yes, you did... already state that, I am unsure of the relevance to repeat it, it changes nothing.
    How is advanced armor being better in multiple layers not relevant?!?!?!?!
     

    Tsnonak

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    I am starting to get the feeling you are more interested in arguing with me and repeating yourself, than providing usefull information...
    like: why you think "there should be distinction in max speed between ship sizes"... in space...
    or why you prefer to ignore: balancing-starmade-systems.31430/#post-378742... and that StarMade already has a "hard" speed-cap anyway.

    There is nothing to: "not understand" here...
    you'd be better off using basic hull on your ship since you only have a single layer of armor @Tsonak . In QF adv is worse than basic if it's in a single layer. That is not an opinion btw, it's a fact.
    ..."I am unsure of the relevance to repeat it"....
    furthermore; I do not understand the relevance of the explaing the math, that won't change my opinion: "is just wierd"...
    nor the relevance of me understanding the math.

    ... because, well, no offense.
     
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    Keptick

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    ..."I am unsure of the relevance to repeat it"....
    furthermore; I do not understand the relevance of the explaing the math, that won't change my opinion: "is just wierd"...
    nor the relevance of me understanding the math.

    ... because, well, no offense.
    Well, if you want to play the realism card, it makes sense for armor to get stronger against smaller projectiles as it gets thicker. With that being said, it makes no sense to apply "realism" to a space lego simulator. Thankfully, the game isn't balanced around your "opinion", but around actual testing and balance principles.

    I repeated because you clearly didn't understand the first time... You can ignore facts all you want, it won't change them.
     
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    Tsnonak

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    You have just proven, beyond 100%, you are just here to argue.

    You do not understand the: Thread Concept.
    You are in violation of sections 2., 3., & 4.

    Your last three (3) posts are repetative, argumentative, and have no relevancy to the quotes you provided.
    You have failed to stay on Topic.

    I am not about to waste my time, and the time of others with such garbage, I implore you not to either.

    I'll bet you are part of the QuickFire Initiative, aren't you?
     

    Nauvran

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    You have just proven, beyond 100%, you are just here to argue.

    You do not understand the: Thread Concept.
    You are in violation of sections 2., 3., & 4.

    Your last three (3) posts are repetative, argumentative, and have no relevancy to the quotes you provided.
    You have failed to stay on Topic.

    I am not about to waste my time, and the time of others with such garbage, I implore you not to either.

    I'll bet you are part of the QuickFire Initiative, aren't you?
    aaand now you're being a cunt which is off topic, you're also suggesting he's only here to argue which is another rule you just broken.
    not going so well for you is it
     
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