About the Proposed "Fix" to the Power System...

[Markus_McCloud]

Schine, I have just one thing to say about your new power system...

I don't care if you do implement it. Go right ahead and add it. I'm sure others would enjoy it. However...

DON'T YOU FUCKING DARE REMOVE OR BRICK THE CURRENT POWER SYSTEM.

I know I'm gonna get backlash for this, but I had to get my opinion heard, and they locked further discussion from the main thread.

UPDATE [Apr. 5, 2017]:
Wow... I was REALLY salty in this post, wasn't I? I'm sorry you guys had to hear my rant; I really am. I've been a bit grumpier than usual; I blame lack of sleep and no caffeine, but that's no excuse for my behavior.

Schine, go right ahead and add the new power system. As a request, though, could you keep the current system coded into the game? There's quite a few reasons it shouldn't be eliminated entirely:

1. All 5,000+ .sment files on the Dock use this system. If the current system was eliminated ENTIRELY, every schematic on the Dock would have to be retrofitted with the new power system, and some ships haven't been updated in YEARS.
2. Building temporary bases would be much harder. It's a lot simpler to plop down a few Power Reactors than building a multiblock structure just to power a handful of Factories and Capsule Refineries.
3. You kept the old docking system; this power system should get the same treatment. The old Docking System is still in the game. You can see proof of it at every Derelict and Pirate station you visit. Its compatibility was nerfed, but it's not gone entirely. Keeping the Power Reactors and Power Capacitors in the game would allow players to download dated .sment files and enjoy the same gameplay that the current players relish so much.
4. Removing it would put current players in an awkward position: Should we continue to build using today's power system and risk having our creations rendered obsolete the moment the update comes out, or should we just wait until the update and find another means of entertainment until the new system is released?

Again, sorry for having to hear me on a day where I didn't have my caffeine fix. I hope you forgive me...
...I'll see myself to the door...

 

[wizerdwolf]

Eh... I can understand why you'd be upset if it broke the current power system, BUT I'm really not sure it'd be possible to introduce a whole new power system and leave this system working. Honestly, the only possible way I could see that even being possible is if they don't touch the current power blocks, and simply introduce completely new blocks to handle the new power system. Frankly though, that would be a shitty way of doing it, and would leave outdated assets in the game, bloating the size of the game, and potentially causing other unforeseen issues in the future.

And honestly, I'm not particularly fond of the current way we have to design power generation, anyway.

 

[Daro_Khan]

in the testing phase the total said the new system if implemented would be in a testing stage and exist along side in a config file where servers could turn it on or off as they please.

aka TESTING DEV build to see the new system. Nothing so drastic is going to be just PUT right in the game without testing.

THE GAME IS ALPHA
THEY CAN CHANGE ANYTHING
BUT TO DO IT WELL
TESTING WE DO :D

and honestly I dont see the old power system last once we hit beta at all as it is currently. power system is a source of a lot of starmades design problems.

Lack of creativity past X amount of size. hell the new power system might even let smaller ships we know today perform even better (more power ect bleh bleh)

Just wait to see what happens stop these threats, they dont care about you. Cause I sure dont. Test the system when they show/let us test it. THEN give constructive feedback. Then they will care about you. and myself a tad more for correct community feedback in a meaningful development phase

 

[jayman38]

That was rude. The Schine team asked for input. They don't yet have solid plans to change the power system.

Asking to avoid changing the existing power system for a long time would have been a better approach than this unreasonable and unnecessarily inflammatory demand. Besides, this has already been said in many ways, and Schine has already responded to this sort of concern with the appropriate restraint and decorum.

"Hey, hey, hey, hey-now. Don't be mean; we don't have to be mean, cuz, remember, no matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai

 

[kurosawa]

@ OP, thank you very much...

You knee jerk childish reaction is going to help put a lid on any future communications we get from Shine.
I cannot speak for Shine, but they should in no way let them self be bullied in any way or forms by threats like that.

 

[Brokengauge]

How was he being threatening? The font color?

I do think saying "don't you dare" is not a very productive way to voice your opinion... I mean I use that kind of phrasing on my kid....then she does the thing anyway, then I sigh and say "ok fine, go ahead" thus reinforcing her belief that saying "don't you dare" means "go right on ahead" lol.

Markus_McCloud what specifically is your issue with a new power system? Is it having to go back and redo your power?

 

[GRHayes]

View attachment 40569 Schine, I have just one thing to say about your new power system...

I don't care if you do implement it. Go right ahead and add it. I'm sure others would enjoy it. However...

View attachment 40570 DON'T YOU FUCKING DARE REMOVE OR BRICK THE CURRENT POWER SYSTEM.

I know I'm gonna get backlash for this, but I had to get my opinion heard, and they locked further discussion from the main thread.

Ok, some people say I have a bad personality on here. This even goes beyond me.
That said I understand your sentiment.
Yet, I would have no issue at all giving up every last current object in this game if they actually fix the power system and stop this bad attempts to balance stuff. Yea I have a lot of hours put into building stuff. But part of the fun is the building it and making working out how to get the best I can out of something.

 

[jayman38]

...
jayman38 And that is the problem. Current power system are the "bones" of a ship, if Schine change on a future, building new stuff = waste of time. Then arrives a wild question: Why play a game that is mostly build stuff if that stuff is going to have to be changed in the future and we have no idea which way is going to be the change?
...

For the fun of it.

 

[GRHayes]

jayman38 Yeah is totally "fun" works on a +500 metters ship during 2 months to check that on some update is going to be useless or needed of more love if you want to use it. [Fun is not measurable and depends on each person, so it can not be used as a valid argument]

Before you think at the current moment only is "fun" and not a waste of time works on ship shapes, not at the ship´s guts, that is the reasson that Schine must upload a dev build with the "heat" system assap.

Actually he has another option. Fix all the underlying issues and the current system then add the heat system and leave both in thus it would be user preference as to what they use one or the other or a combination of both. In short he could simply added as another tool in the inventory for us to use. That is probably the best option. That way old ships we might want to keep can be fixed with minimal effort or updates and new ships we have more choices on.

 

[Brokengauge]

Especially if the new system is all together better, then it couldn't hurt to keep the old, antiquated system in place. Unless you're really hurting for system block ID's, but I thought that wasn't an issue anymore.

 

[wizerdwolf]

wizerdwolf Current power system is not broken [please stop saying that]. If the big chunks of power blocks gets a total nerf and the shield gain curve gets and "stop" at some point of the extra e/sec, the current system can stay with the "heat" system at same time.[Think on it as diferent engines on a same "vehicle" check how works militar submarines hibrids for example]

FOR THE RECORD, I did not say it was broken, nor did I mean to imply it was! I simply dislike how the current system works. My main point was that the Schine team is correct in there being room for improvement, and that I do not think it would be feasible to maintain the current power system AND have a new power system at the same time.

 

[kurosawa]

How was he being threatening? The font color?

I do think saying "don't you dare" is not a very productive way to voice your opinion... I mean I use that kind of phrasing on my kid....then she does the thing anyway, then I sigh and say "ok fine, go ahead" thus reinforcing her belief that saying "don't you dare" means "go right on ahead" lol.

Markus_McCloud what specifically is your issue with a new power system? Is it having to go back and redo your power?

You seem to have forgotten the all caps and fucking.

There is also a slight difference between family "disputes" and what we have here.

 

[Brokengauge]

How is vulgarity and blatant disregard of the "shift" key threatening? Every time I've been threatened the "don't you dare" part is followed by some sort of followup statement of "or I'll stab you in the face". THAT part is a threat.

Simply saying "DONT YOU FUCKING DARE" is not a threat in and of itself. Not only that, I would also say that this could hardly even register as serious as a "family dispute".

Still, presenting himself in such a way surely wasn't very reasonable. But I wouldn't call him threatening lol

 

[wizerdwolf]

wizerdwolf sorry english is not my main language and on the way your construct that sentence apparently you are saying that.

Can you explain a little why the current power system dislike to you? [And please do not forget to explain how you use it at construction time].

I agree with what Schema said in the original post about it leading towards certain designs when aiming for power efficiency (cube shapes), and limiting the functional effectiveness of more aesthetic builds. I, personally, try to design my ships 1st to look good, 2nd to have rp-able interior (from a cockpit for a manned fighter to a full interior for a battleship), 3rd to have neat logic and rail features where possible, then 4th and finally to have functional systems, more or less in that order.

There will always be some element of choosing between form vs function in this game, but I do think it /should/ be possible to build a fully rp-able ship that can also function properly in combat, but alas, I find myself running into power constraint issues if I try to have okay weapons on my ships, OR I run into somewhat weak weapons if I have enough power on my ships. This isn't too large a concern for me, though, as I mostly build for aesthetic and rp value.

 

[Edymnion]

DON'T YOU FUCKING DARE REMOVE OR BRICK THE CURRENT POWER SYSTEM.

Its an Alpha.

Everything changes, thats the nature of it being an alpha. If you can't accept that EVERYTHING YOU BUILD is going to be obsolete and worthless by the time the game officially launches, then maybe you just don't need to be playing an alpha game?

Because I'll say it again. Everything we build now, everything we have built in the past, everything we build from here on out is going to be a worthless pile of crap by the time the game launches. None of our stuff will be worth having in it's current form.

Don't get married to anything in the game right now, just enjoy it for what it is, and be ready to scrap everything and start over again at a moment's notice.

 

[jayman38]

jayman38
...Fun is not measurable and depends on each person, so it can not be used as a valid argument...

Invalid assessment. Fun is regularly measured. When a resort or theme park sends you a satisfaction survey, they aren't actually measuring your satisfaction. They actually want to measure how much memorable fun you had, which leads to satisfaction. One of my favorites: When someone leaves a glowing rating for a cult classic bad movie, acknowledging that it is a bad movie, but talking about how much fun they have while watching the movie, that high rating is not a measure of the movie's technical achievement and objective "goodness". It's a measurement of how much fun the viewer had watching it. Finally, yes, "fun" is the ultimate valid argument for anything classified as a game. If you don't classify Starmade as a game, that's your problem, because Starmade is a game.

jayman38
Yeah is totally "fun" works on a +500 metters ship during 2 months to check that on some update is going to be useless or needed of more love if you want to use it....

Before you think at the current moment only is "fun" and not a waste of time works on ship shapes, not at the ship´s guts, that is the reasson that Schine must upload a dev build with the "heat" system assap.

Your relationship to the game and what you do with it: the ships, the enjoyment, the building, time spent, is all ultimately your responsibility.
If you find Starmade to be a waste of your time, that's fine, and ceasing your building is your decision to make. However, that doesn't mean building needs to stop for anyone else. Building can continue to be fun, depending on your personal relationship to the game, regardless of what the future holds. Especially in regards to the issues presented by the community for a feature that may or may not be added to the game at some nebulous point in the future.

 

[Amadeus]

I have full confidence that Schine will create a system that is more intuitive than the current one and is still unique to Starmade. I don't mind change as long as it is well reasoned, and everyone at Schine is geared towards communicating relevant information to us, especially as the power system is concerned. I personally can't wait to hear their revised plan, because if the Devs have demonstrated anything to us it is their ability to change how they do things. Sure, the original proposal has some rough spots, even I have concerns, especially with the concept of "filler/empty space." Even still, I have faith that the team at Schine will create something that will only enhance the game as a whole.

 

[jayman38]

jayman38 Congrats you are a candidate about the logic fallacys of the month.

You know the diference between and "absolute scale" and a "relative scale"?

You can not put stuff like fun as an absolute scale only because you can "rate a survey" on other "fun stuff", that rate depends on the mood, and other psychological stuff that is going to make some changes on the final rate. [In other words: whatever is fun today tomorrow may not be, being the same activity performed on both days].

As i said "fun" can not be an argument because is not measurable and depends on each person.

And Jayman38 congrats if you have enough free time to build ships that you know on a future are going to get useless guts, unfortunately I do not have that possibility, if you think that I am the only one with that problem you just have to check how the number of players have fallen since Schine showed that they were going to change the energy system. [Use StarMade Server List | StarMade Multiplayer Servers to check that.]

I have a list of fallacy types on my wall. I do not see where my statements fit. On the contrary, you did not mention which scale was required for measurement. Only that fun could not be measured, as quoted below. I clearly proved you wrong with multiple real-world examples.

...Fun is not measurable and depends on each person, so it can not be used as a valid argument....
...As i said "fun" can not be an argument because is not measurable and depends on each person....

Also to the contrary, since a new power system has not been clearly defined and scheduled, you do not "know" that your ship's internals will be useless in the future. I realize that you are not alone, so I post this for not only your benefit, but everyone with your mindset.

 

[Batavium]

The "Fix". They did it before.

 

[kurosawa]

The "Fix". They did it before.

so you like the change i mean random act of violence is right up your ally