500k+ AMCs on a single computer

[TheSol]

I've made 7 arrays of approximately 20H x 10W x 700L anti matter cannons.

The game runs perfectly fine the entire time (100+fps).

As soon as I log off, and come back, I get 1fps the instant the weapons computer loads.

I will get 1fps the entire time, whether I'm in the ship or not, in build mode or not, or have the weapons computer selected or not.

The fps returns to normal as soon as I delete the weapons computer.

Has anyone else had this issue? Does spreading the AMCs across multiple computers yeild the same result? Is there any way to fix it, or is this a general engine performance issue?

Thanks for reading.

*EDIT*
To clarify, once I hit around the 500k mark for AMCs I start to notice a drop in fps (if I log out and come back). at 500k AMCs I get about 45-50fps instead of my usual 100-110. Once I get close to the 1million mark, I get 1fps.

*EDIT*
Any player at all that logs in is also affected by this, once the weapons computer loads. If you approach the ship from the front, the AMCs load in with no effect to the fps. The weapons computer lodas in (closer to the rear of the ship) and the fram rate plummets.

Also, just to clarify further, the CPU usage on my system (4.4Ghz i7) is 30%, and RAM usage (8Gb DDR3 1600) is 55% when this problem occurs. The SSD I am using for the server, is ONLY used by the server (there is nothing else on the drive). It's a 128Gb Vertex4 drive, with about 120Gb still free.

One last thing is, the "wobble" effect is disabled via settings.cfg so it's not that either. I have also tried both the standard vanilla texture pack as well as my own... this seems to make zero difference.


~TheSol

 

[DracoNB]

Why?????

You have arrays that are 20x10x700 = 140,000 each (1,400,000 power per shot)

Seriously... why the hell are you trying to do this? You can\'t even fire them consistantly

20x10x70 = 14,000

Those stats:

Damage: 2,993.30
Range: 5,022.90
Recharge: 51.70
Speed: 314.30
Attacks Per Scecond:19.34
Power per second: 2,707,930.37
DPS: 57,897.49



So it takes 2.7 MILLION power per second to fire only 1/10 of the size of array you are going for, and you want 7 of them???



Also the dps per block drops to a rediciously low 4.14 for the 14,000 array... yours must be patheticly low

 

[Trafalgar]

Maybe he has an equally absurd number of power tanks. It may be a terible idea if he\'s actually trying to make a warship, but it sounds like he still found a bug, and that\'s what\'s important.

 

[DracoNB]

It doesn\'t sound like a BUG, it sounds like a limitation of the hardware trying to render all of the glowing purple outlines. My laptop fps drops massively just doing the 14k block when the weapon computer is selected, when I deselect it goes back to full.

 

[Trafalgar]

If it\'s running fine before he logs out, and then drops to 1 fps after he logs out and back in, you don\'t think something is wrong?

 

[Calbiri]

Do you have the group selection highlights (the purple boxes when linking) enabled?

In one of your servers starmade file you will find a text file called \"Settings\" (there is also one called \"Server\", both have different settings, for your server, and for your client) the settings file will have and option called \"G_DRAW_SELECTED_BLOCK_WOBBLE = true\" near the bottom. Set the \"true\" to \"false\" and then save the text file, now start up starmade. Your purple link bocs should no longer display, this should greatly help with lag from large groups of linked blocks (although you must now remember what is linked to what on your own)

 

[DracoNB]

Maybe because of the purple glow like I mentioned? Having that on tanks my fps on my laptop and deselecting (or deleting) the weapon computer turns it off.



I\'m not going to try to reproduce the issue myself because its a waste of time and absurd. If he wants to upload the blueprint I\'ll try to reproduce it.

 

[TheSol]

I turned off the \"wobble\" effect, so no, the outline is not causing the issue.

To answer reply #1... because I can? I have billions of power storage, and 15 million regen (so far) in my ship.

If I want an array that can blast the shields of ANYTHING down to zero in 0.2 seconds, then I should be able to?

P.S. I can, and have fired them constantly for like, 5 minutes without stopping. I still had rediculous power in storage.

~TheSol

 

[Trafalgar]

Also I don\'t think it is possible for 15 million regen. As far as I know (from Calibiri) the max is just over 3 mil regen/sec.


There\'s no max. You eventually reach a point where the power added by each power generator decreases towards 25 e/sec even if it is designed for optimal output. For instance, if you had a 1 million block line of power generators (dimension sum 1000002), you would get 26,000,000 e/sec from them, for 26 e/sec from each block. And if you just had 1 million blocks of power generators arranged into a 100x100x100 cube (dimension sum 300), you would get 25,283,042.25 e/sec, for 25.28 e/sec from each block. As you can see, the difference at that point is hardly worth worrying about, but more to the point, there is no limit to regen, it just slows way down and you need a godawful lot of blocks to get anywhere above 1 or 1.2 million e/sec or so. (It\'s far more fruitful to add lots of power tanks instead)

Equation used:

if x is a list of the total dimensions (xdim+ydim+zdim) of each of your contiguous power generators:

ePerSec = (1/(1+(1.000696)^(sum(-(x/3)^1.7)*.333))-.5)*2000000+25*powerBlocks

If you only have one power generator in the ship you don\'t have to sum anything. Otherwise where it says sum(-(x/3)^1.7) do the -(x/3)^1.7 operation for each contiguous power generator, then sum the results, and use that in the equation.

Note for order-of-operations-challenged people: it\'s -((x/3)^1.7), not (-(x/3))^1.7, doing the subtraction before the exponent will give a completely wrong answer.

If your generators are all perfectly efficient (no wasted blocks), e.g. you have a 200-block line or a + or the like, then powerBlocks is (sum(x)-2*dim(x)), where dim(x) is the number of elements in x. The reason is that a 200-block generator has an x of 202 because it is 200x1x1 (200+1+1 = 202), for example.

Edit: A couple more tests.

With the 100x100x100 power cube, adding a 3d + which is 200 wide, long, and tall. x = {600, 300}. powerblocks = 1000598. Result=25,859,376.63.

Alternately, increasing the 100x100x100 block to 200x200x200 without changing the number of blocks from 1 million gives 25,737,701.16. That\'s fairly easy to do. Make a huge block of generators and then run lines from it to each edge of your ship. Of course, you could have made a huge block of power tanks or shields instead... (1 million shield blocks gives 8 million shield capacity)

 

[DracoNB]

You have 15 MILLION regen?

Regen crawls to 25e/sec shortly after hitting over 1 million... so you have over 560,000+ power blocks?

Billions of power storage... so over 300,000+ power blocks?

Add in the almost million AMCs and you are at 1,840,000 blocks without any shields, thrusters, etc.

Are you trying to crash servers or ??

 

[TheSol]

No, I\'m not trying to crash servers. My ship doesn\'t crash servers, or anything else for that matter.

I\'m buiding a big ship... you jelly or something?

Yes, I have 15 million regen... more like 18 million now.

Anyway, too many AMCs on a single computer are a problem... but only after log out and back in. Breaking them up amongst more computers seems to \"solve\" the problem, but then they cannot be fired simultaneously without the ship being AI controlled... which I do NOT want to do.

~TheSol

 

[HaViC is Chaos]

Unless you only play single player, any multiplayer server you enter (even your own) will crash or at the least lag everyone out the moment someone touches or comes into view of your ship.

 

[DivineEvil]

The problem lies in the fact, that when you\'re logging in, the engine loads your ship. When it does that, it starts to continuously render up your AMCs, and calculating the stats for the weapon accomodating the amount. So, as result, you\'re having your PC running around 1 million instances of calculus to figure out damage, range, reload, speed and energy consumption of those weapons for 1 computer at the same time, while even tweaking stats for one 20-30 block AMC group cannot be performed instantly while engine scales it\'s values up and down.

Do you need any further explanations?

 

[DracoNB]

Lol hardly \"jelly\", anyone can /give themselves thousands of blocks and place them in the most inefficient way possible. There is no skill in what you are doing... hell I repeated a lot of it in a few minutes to come up with my numbers.



Skill is using the least amount of blocks for the highest gains, anyone can place thousands of blocks in squares all over the screen.



Good luck using that ship in multiplayer, it will crash out as soon as you try to use it or fly it around.

 

[Mason]

This sounds like something I would do. Whats your damage at? :D

 

[TheSol]

How people have MUCH larger systems than this then?

I\'ve heard of people connecting literally 5+ million AMCs to a ship.

Either they\'re lying hardcore... or something else is wrong.

If it\'s looping through millions of blocks to calculate damage... should it not do this only ONCE when all the blocks are loaded? Why does it continue to run 1fps AFTER everything is loaded (an thus calculated?). Why does it only do this AFTER a re-log?

It never improves preformance with so many AMCs. I did a test with like 1/4 of my total AMCs, and it took a massive dive as well, though recovered a \'little bit\' after 20 seconds or so (after everything loaded). I was getting like 20fps with 1/4 of the total AMCs, and after 20 seconds or so, it jumped to about 35-40fps. Still very far from the usual frame rate I get of 100-120.

If the calc loop is indeed what\'s affecting it (CPU use most likely) then should that not be addressed to NOT constantly loop, especially while blocks are still loading?

*EDIT*

Why does this not happen on other blocks that give cumulative results based on blocks connected/joined... such as power, tanks, thrusters or shields?

~TheSol

 

[TheSol]

Each array was doing about 10k damage, and firing about 20-25 times a second.

That is, until I logged out and came back.

Now, after adding 5 turrets to my ship (fairly large, but not Thunderclap status... about 25-30k mass each) with about 15k AMCs each (two arrays with two computers) I can\'t even add ONE of my main arrays back without hitting 1fps again.

I\'m not sure how to even deal with this... since it\'s a game breaker for me as far as finishing this ship goes.

~TheSol

 

[TheSol]

Not a single crash or lag has occured.

~TheSol

 

[TheSol]

I love how you presume to know anything about me, this ship, or how it was built. You don\'t even know what it looks like... I challenge you to build anything even remotely similar, and you CAN use \"creative mode\" for all I care.

FYI, this ship has been made 100% legit. All materials were either salvaged, found, bought from stores, traded, or bought from blueprints (material blocks)... which I had to PAY for using money I gained from raiding pirates and visiting shops.

The reason for wanting \"huge blocks of guns\" is because, for costmetic reasons mostly, I don\'t want 50,000,000 beams flying out of my ship. I\'m attempting to make minimalist visual impact for supreme damage (using as few cannons as possible). I bet you make 6 bazillion 2x1x1 AMCs everywhere, so you look like Frosty the Snowman is ejaculating all over the screen every time you shoot. I don\'t want that.

I have also flown around on the server to some degree. I\'ve moved 5 or so sectors around from where I\'m building it. Never lagged once. The idea is to be more of a display piece... not an actual ship you battle with (at least until the game performance is optimised later). It\'s the equivilant of a \"show car\". You don\'t drive it... you look at it.

So politely, screw you. Stop trying to know anything about my motivation, and please refrain from making anything I\'ve said into some other lame insult. Clearly you don\'t like the ship or the idea, or the fact I\'ve found a massive problem with SOMETHING related to mega-builds... so leave?

*EDIT*

Here is the thread with the ship in it... go build something on the same level as this, use \"give\" if you want... Don\'t ever insult me again.

http://star-made.org/content/mothership-project-dervish-wip

~TheSol

 

[Trafalgar]

Have you increased the memory available to StarMade above the default, and have you checked to see how much it is using, and how much of your computer\'s RAM is being used, when StarMade drops to 1 fps and stays there? Perhaps one or both are running out. If you have more RAM available you can let StarMade use more (when you launch the launcher, in the window that lets you update it, there is a menu item that lets you change that, although with a ship that huge I imagine you must have already increased it). You may also need to be running 64-bit java or it will just crash (because 32-bit java can\'t address that much memory). If your system is running out then you need to shut things down to free up memory, or buy more memory, or configure a usb stick as a ramdrive (which is virtual memory, but much faster than virtual memory on a SATA hard drive).