The Pinnacle of Roleplay

klawxx · Nov 30, 2018

Thadius Faran said:
Is work referencing your actual job or EVE in this case? xP

Discord's not really comparable to FaceBook or Twitter, I highly recommend checking out the official StarMade discord and some other StarMade related ones like Cake Build Server's discord.

heh I mean real work. Alrealdy had my fair share of vlookup as a proccess analyst and later sysadmin.

Vacation starting tomorrow. If I'm free of wife agro i might check it up. Thanks for the hint.

NeonSturm · Nov 30, 2018

klawxx said:
NeonSturm deserve that circuitry badge since what he proposes could be understood and applied by the devs, but it may be confusing for the average player base.

Yes and all that info belongs together.
Telling less may cause ppls responding to it in a wrong way by not understanding the heritage line of a good game.

Its a double-edged sword.
You can neither tell less or more - and it's a narrow path including my argument here, but a neccessary one to get a full review on the topic.

klawxx said:
I would love it if we could somewhat avoid spreadsheet battles, or at least leave those for the galactic market side of the game. I don't want to feel that I'm at work when playing StarMade, not that I do not like it, mind you, but If you want to increase the player base the calculations could be advanced, but be transparent and intuitive to the majority of the community.

I agree.
I like spreadsheets, but they need to be intuitive.

They should be things to confirm your intuitive perception of things,
. . . and NOT be something you have to print out and pin on the wall around your screen while playing SM.
You shouldn't even need most of them for any balance discussion.

These spreadsheets should be consistent for each category of ships.

"Magic Sticks" out of core + thrusters + reactor with max 7x 5y 9z.
"Minimal" about 7-13 wide, 5-9 high, 9-21 long. With less, you can't -for example- make it appear like a propper shuttle from StarGate-Atlantis.
"Basic" which just fits into a 29*29*29 box so that it fits into a chunk. But it starts from where minimal ends.

"Magic Sticks" and "Minimal" need some nerfs so that peoples don't spam them (except with warheads on them as mines).
"Basic" does not need nerfs but can have some simplification of mechanics. They are also optimal shuttles which create low lag near/on planets.

And above these, we can have 2-3 categories: Ships which peoples can get for 1 or 10 hours grinding and ships which require much more grinding.

Competitions may allow ships with materials worth 1 hour of grind on their server with "Shine's / Admin's Standard Grinder Ship".

Or 10 hours. And after a competition, the winner can get his ship for free and the losers must pay for their ship and a share of ressources to participate in (and to reward the winner).
[doublepost=1543593603,1543592983][/doublepost]Bigger ships would be expected to only engage territory-defense combat.
They would be a nice challenge to overcome when someone uses "cheats/bugs/exploits".

Competition ships would be available to everyone.
And once a blueprint is produced 10x, it becomes visible to everyone - and everyone can try it out / have a look at it for free within a test sector.

Az14el · Nov 30, 2018

"Dont balance the game because we can just RP"
Fucking no?

why not both?

why not continue to develop the game in a positive direction that's accessible for multiple online player archetypes like they have been

I mean schine obviously isn't going to respect this opinion because its literally anti developement while they're developing a game they refer to as "alpha state" (meaning they plan to continue developing it regardless of what ridiculous reasoning the sabotage artists who dare to refer to themselves as "RPers" come up with to continue to try to destroy the game, lucky for the rest of us and sucks to be on whatever payroll or drug you're on)

But needs to be said, just no, the game obviously still needs work and that includes systems balance, there's no sensible & non malicious reason for you not to want the game to progress values-balance wise and indeed combat/player interaction feature wise (which will positively affect *actual* RP players and PVP players alike as well as that majority thats somewhere in between, wow who would have thought, guess people who like brokenmade as it is lose huh).

Delusional stuff op.

"triggered person" out

Code North · Dec 1, 2018

Az14el said:
"Dont balance the game because we can just RP"
Fucking no?

why not both?

why not continue to develop the game in a positive direction that's accessible for multiple online player archetypes like they have been

I mean schine obviously isn't going to respect this opinion because its literally anti developement while they're developing a game they refer to as "alpha state" (meaning they plan to continue developing it regardless of what ridiculous reasoning the sabotage artists who dare to refer to themselves as "RPers" come up with to continue to try to destroy the game, lucky for the rest of us and sucks to be on whatever payroll or drug you're on)

But needs to be said, just no, the game obviously still needs work and that includes systems balance, there's no sensible & non malicious reason for you not to want the game to progress values-balance wise and indeed combat/player interaction feature wise (which will positively affect *actual* RP players and PVP players alike as well as that majority thats somewhere in between, wow who would have thought, guess people who like brokenmade as it is lose huh).

Delusional stuff op.

"triggered person" out

As delusional op i can just point at the tl:dr as it states:

CURRENT starmade BUILD is better without pvp/meta since its not fun,
Roleplay does not really need balancing so its the way to go and make the best
with what we got.

or recommend to reread the post.

As there seems to be no hint to a "anti developement" agenda, or a call to halt all developement from this point onward..
But thank you for your profanity, accusation of drug use and humourus gatekeeping for real RP and PVP players..

and apology for the triggering.

klawxx · Dec 1, 2018

Az14el said:
"Dont balance the game because we can just RP"
Fucking no?

why not both?

why not continue to develop the game in a positive direction that's accessible for multiple online player archetypes like they have been

I mean schine obviously isn't going to respect this opinion because its literally anti developement while they're developing a game they refer to as "alpha state" (meaning they plan to continue developing it regardless of what ridiculous reasoning the sabotage artists who dare to refer to themselves as "RPers" come up with to continue to try to destroy the game, lucky for the rest of us and sucks to be on whatever payroll or drug you're on)

But needs to be said, just no, the game obviously still needs work and that includes systems balance, there's no sensible & non malicious reason for you not to want the game to progress values-balance wise and indeed combat/player interaction feature wise (which will positively affect *actual* RP players and PVP players alike as well as that majority thats somewhere in between, wow who would have thought, guess people who like brokenmade as it is lose huh).

Delusional stuff op.

"triggered person" out

Soo much anger, soo much fear. The dark side is strong on this one... Sad day this is. /sigh

Sachys · Dec 1, 2018

NeonSturm said:
Using exploits cause lag. They are bannable.

An exploit is an exploit when 75% aggree of it being undesireable. (because it causes unneccessary lag compared to a feature that allows same, or because it needs (both technical or on-others) gambling to decide of availability).
Everything else is up to discussion and view perspective.

By your own words here, you really dont understand exploits:

If the current 3 exploits (and the next two im compiling, and the last few god knows how many) sent to Schine were based upon what you said, blueprint filling from shipyards would not have ended - along with various others. There were many active players AND factions as a whole (hello factions with an admin in your faction getting them system scans for you! - still happening sadly i hear) that happily used them (and not just the usual supects).

None of the ones I currently have recently submitted / will be submitting after more tests cause lag, only player end unhappiness and player time wasted if on the recieving end.

Im not really sure what the rest of your post is about after that point as you start with board games, so this is my only input in reply to you bud.

Dr. Whammy · Dec 1, 2018

Code North said:
As delusional op i can just point at the tl:dr as it states:

CURRENT starmade BUILD is better without pvp/meta since its not fun,
Roleplay does not really need balancing so its the way to go and make the best
with what we got.

or recommend to reread the post.

As there seems to be no hint to a "anti developement" agenda, or a call to halt all developement from this point onward..
But thank you for your profanity, accusation of drug use and humourus gatekeeping for real RP and PVP players..

and apology for the triggering.

You know, this is essentially and apples/oranges argument now, right?

Take it form an impartial third party; The reason you're catching this kind of flack is because there's no need to state the obvious (that RP is doing fine despite the game's weak developmental state) and then try to explain why the game is "fine without PVP/META".

Your TL;DR and the use of the word "toxic" implies all is good and don't worry about PVP/RP/RTS. etc. As such, you inadvertently picked a fight that didn't need to happen since no one (not even you) wants development to cease, just to suit RP.

Do you understand what I mean?

Az14el · Dec 1, 2018

If you can roleplay unbalanced weapons & systems (that affect both AI and Players alike) all the more power to you
but thats obviously not speaking for everyone and everyones subjective idea of what "RP" is in this context, furthermore the "RP" being kinda reliant on what the game allows it only stands to benefit from "pvp" balance (in this case just straight up systems balancing, why thats a pvper thing ill never know)

It doesn't require it sure, but it does benefit from it and I promise you if there were "fun" RP elements to starmade right now there would be a lot more active RP players as well as those who just enjoy a more fleshed out universe actually populating the servers, but its just not the case because it flat out does rely on the gamestate being well developed.

I tend to assume addlement or ulterior motives when the content thats posted is just that ridiculous tbh, it's probably nicer than just assuming the person is thick as a small city block (and more realistic! people on the whole are reasonable) but there's really no "nice" way to see it to me

NeonSturm · Dec 1, 2018

Sachys said:
By your own words here, you really dont understand exploits:

If the current 3 exploits (and the next two im compiling, and the last few god knows how many) sent to Schine were based upon what you said, blueprint filling from shipyards would not have ended - along with various others. There were many active players AND factions as a whole (hello factions with an admin in your faction getting them system scans for you! - still happening sadly i hear) that happily used them (and not just the usual supects).

I like blueprint filling too, but only if the blueprint gets heavier / more volume in cargo-crates through it.
It allows an easy "packaged" storage and transport management of unfinished ships and still requires a shipyard on the receiving end.

With 75% I meant ppls who take into consideration all the hatret and bullying that can cause and look at the negative consequences before making up their mind. These peoples who abuse everything damage themselves (this is not like a common stupid Grinder-Game, but has a Sandbox-Mode too).

BTW It would be cool if you can pre-package raw product for a desired output and then put that package in a factory which does not even need to be configured itself (this job is up to the packager module). And that there are waste-products to encourage use of ships which are not built out of top-of-the-line elite parts as cannon fodder, gifts to newbies or for weaker forward stations in insecure terrain. You may include this in any suggestion you like to post.

____
More On-Topic now:

The game just needs a civilian balance, scrap materials and a military version used for combat-ships.
Everything that hurts balance has no equivalent here. It's boring min-maxing.

Civilian is not as effective, but when you have 4-6 such ships you can beat a military vessel too.
And you can customize weapons here (no tertiaries except overdrive/underdrive/stop are allowed, mostly visible effects).

And 3 Scavengers can beat one civilian vessel.

Sachys · Dec 1, 2018

NeonSturm said:
I like blueprint filling too, but only if the blueprint gets heavier / more volume in cargo-crates through it.
It allows an easy "packaged" storage and transport management of unfinished ships and still requires a shipyard on the receiving end.

With 75% I meant ppls who take into consideration all the hatret and bullying that can cause and look at the negative consequences before making up their mind. These peoples who abuse everything damage themselves (this is not like a common stupid Grinder-Game, but has a Sandbox-Mode too).

BTW It would be cool if you can pre-package raw product for a desired output and then put that package in a factory which does not even need to be configured itself (this job is up to the packager module). And that there are waste-products to encourage use of ships which are not built out of top-of-the-line elite parts as cannon fodder, gifts to newbies or for weaker forward stations in insecure terrain. You may include this in any suggestion you like to post.

That has nothing to do with my reply to your comment - unless you're saying you want exploits, at which you devalue what I quoted (by yourself), making your own words utter drivel in the first place.

Whats happening?! O_____o~

Madoushi · Dec 3, 2018

I don't know if it's even my place to comment, as I'm a player who has dabbled in the game on and off for four years, still builds Flying Bricks and turns off pirates so he doesn't Get Rekt.

I'm intimidated as hell by the prospect of PvP, but I still think weapons and systems need to be properly balanced. How? I don't know. Endless Space would be my gut answer, but Endless Space weapons aren't really balanced either (since guns suck and missiles are eh) but at least they all serve different roles and there are tactics which utilize each.

I think Modules should ideally be a way for ships to specialize, but should be designed so some work better on smaller ships (mobility, stealth) while bigger ships can make use of having multiple defensive/offensive modules. If that's the way it works or is supposed to work, just ignore me.

I also think it would be great if bigger ships ideally needed multiple PCs to function at full efficiency. I remember glancing at a post somewhere that suggested that modules ideally gave someone filling an "engineer" role something to do, and it seems to make sense that trying to solo-pilot a battleship or titan would make it difficult to make full use of its power (I guess one thing RP players could do would be just to turn off AI on non AMS turrets or something...)

I know Schine said that planets are what they are and that the game was about space combat and not mucking about on planets, but I think for the game to hit its full potential (and for survival mode to really be engaging) planets being bigger and having more stuff to do on them would be great.

NeonSturm · Dec 3, 2018

I think it would be great if multiple computers/weapons/reactors are encouraged on big ships, but not too many either.
A big ship may have 4 reactors, because if one fails it still works at over 70% efficiency.

If a big ship has some sort of super-gun, it should be firing-forward-only (or only broadside/rear) and you may have 2 of them.
Small ships should also benefit from having 2 reactors but should have only one such super-module around which they are built.

But who defines "really big" and "not so big" on SM's endless scale?
Previously, we had 1 mille softcap, but now?

It doesn't need to be encouraged to build only this way by mechanics, but it shouldn't be a disadvantage either.

IMPORTANT NOTE: You can easily build a ship with 9/4 mass and 3/2 visible size.
You may not even notice the difference without something to compare to.

It doesn't matter if one weapon is 20% weaker or stronger in damage, but weapon-range is noticable.
(Except when you add challenge rules to it, then it might matter).

nulitor · Dec 14, 2018

If you do not want pvp players in your server you could instead of trying to chase them out of the game entirely just have a server with a set up that makes weapon do their glowing cool things but have 0 damage and then manage victories and defeats by voting or something like that.
But bad balance for the overall game does not helps at keeping the pvp players away from your servers it just makes some of them leave the game entirely.
If the total number of players is higher then the dev team will likely have more money to keep developing this game and thus it helps fixing bugs and so on which means that chasing players away from the game is not a good move for rp players.
So if you want the pvp players out of your yard using appropriate server settings works better than having a bad balance for the entire game.

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The Pinnacle of Roleplay

klawxx

Product Manager - Roden Shipyards

NeonSturm

StormMaker

Az14el

Definitely not a skywanderers dev

Code North

klawxx

Product Manager - Roden Shipyards

Sachys

Hermit.

Dr. Whammy

Executive Constructologist of the United Star Axis

Az14el

Definitely not a skywanderers dev

NeonSturm

StormMaker

Sachys

Hermit.

Madoushi

NeonSturm

StormMaker

nulitor