Shields change.

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    Guys I'd like if your feedback included more of the original topic.
    well, as to the original topic: I dont want more stuff tied to a menu. I hated that they did it to thrusters really bad, so i dont want to shields have the same thing happen to them. It wouldnt be bad if they where tied to the new system, but i do not think this is the way to do it.
     

    Zerefette

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    well, as to the original topic: I dont want more stuff tied to a menu. I hated that they did it to thrusters really bad, so i dont want to shields have the same thing happen to them. It wouldnt be bad if they where tied to the new system, but i do not think this is the way to do it.
    What's wrong with thrusters?
     
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    What's wrong with thrusters?
    I prefer and argued for, the method lancake mentioned, when they announced theyd be changing them, where placing them a certain way would have done something. Obviously thats way more difficult to build, but id still prefer it.
     

    Lancake

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    I prefer and argued for, the method lancake mentioned, when they announced theyd be changing them, where placing them a certain way would have done something. Obviously thats way more difficult to build, but id still prefer it.
    Could in theory compare it to building Space Engineer thrusters then, but just on a much much larger scale here as some ships could have 500 000 thruster blocks or more.

    There are probably ways to define thrust movement prioritization with a block system, but if it's determined by those (500 000) thruster blocks, I really don't see that being any fun to build.

    Perhaps I just have the wrong idea on that, but I've never enjoyed making thrust work for space engineers and I only had to mess around with maybe 30-40 thrust "blocks" then ^^
     
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    Could in theory compare it to building Space Engineer thrusters then, but just on a much much larger scale here as some ships could have 500 000 thruster blocks or more.

    There are probably ways to define thrust movement prioritization with a block system, but if it's determined by those (500 000) thruster blocks, I really don't see that being any fun to build.

    Perhaps I just have the wrong idea on that, but I've never enjoyed making thrust work for space engineers and I only had to mess around with maybe 30-40 thrust "blocks" then ^^
    To be honest im discounting the thrust curve you added with that change, so it would have needed less thrust to move a ship :) And if you count in that curve, *Welp* good luck xD

    But yes its way more complicated to build that way on the scale starmade allows, than the current system

    Edit: also 500000 blocks? Jesus, the amount of power regen youd need to even use that alone would be incredible, Most of mine cap out at just enough to provide 50-60k thrust depending on the ship size because theres just to much drain O_O

    Zerefette Shields dont have the problem that thrust had, where they needed to allow it to be split between multiple different things.
    so i dont agree with trying to split them into multiple things. let the player decide how much shielding and recharge they want/need via building, instead of through a menu.
     

    Lancake

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    To be honest im discounting the thrust curve you added with that change, so it would have needed less thrust to move a ship :) And if you count in that curve, *Welp* good luck xD

    But yes its way more complicated to build that way on the scale starmade allows, than the current system

    Edit: also 500000 blocks? Jesus, the amount of power regen youd need to even use that alone would be incredible, Most of mine cap out at just enough to provide 50-60k thrust depending on the ship size because theres just to much drain O_O
    Let's use a smaller example then, 10 000 thrust blocks and also ignore the thrust curve entirely. Now let's say that each thrust block's orientation results in prioritizing thrust for that direction.

    Simplistic example, 7500 blocks forward/backwards vs 2500 sideways => your forward/backwards thrust is 3 times higher than your lateral. (I combined the 6 directions into 3 axis as that reduces the amount of orientations to manage).

    How easy do you think it is to get a specific prioritization. And how easy is it to adjust that considering that it's hard to guess how much more front thrust you need compared to your lateral after you placed all your thrust blocks down.
     
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    Let's use a smaller example then, 10 000 thrust blocks and also ignore the thrust curve entirely. Now let's say that each thrust block's orientation results in prioritizing thrust for that direction.

    Simplistic example, 7500 blocks forward/backwards vs 2500 sideways => your forward/backwards thrust is 3 times higher than your lateral. (I combined the 6 directions into 3 axis as that reduces the amount of orientations to manage).

    How easy do you think it is to get a specific prioritization. And how easy is it to adjust that considering that it's hard to guess how much more front thrust you need compared to your lateral after you placed all your thrust blocks down.
    Oh i know, i did say itd be way harder to build with that system than what you all implemented ^^; i would have just preferred the extra depth that having to fudge with the blocks would have been(the annoyance on the other hand), over clicking a few buttons and waiting. Its a balancing act, and thrusters are right in the middle, where i can see both sides, and agree that the better option was taken for the masses. I dont see that with this suggestion.
     

    Lancake

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    Oh i know, i did say itd be way harder to build with that system than what you all implemented ^^; i would have just preferred the extra depth that having to fudge with the blocks would have been(the annoyance on the other hand), over clicking a few buttons and waiting. Its a balancing act, and thrusters are right in the middle, where i can see both sides, and agree that the better option was taken for the masses. I dont see that with this suggestion.
    There's a clear difference between hard and annoying, which is why we opted for this GUI menu first. I like to think we'll eventually do a block based system to tweak directional movement system, but it would most likely be a small scale separate system that does not adjust your thrust at all if you remove or adjust it. That does mean it would be a bit harder if not impossible to fit it on a small ship, but as not having it would just result in 25% 25% 25% + 25% rot priotization, it would just be A-Ok as those small ships already reach a large thrust to mass ratio early on.

    However, it would most likely not work like any of our current systems do, which is adding another different mechanic to the block building game. Could make it more complicated than we would like.
     
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    There's a clear difference between hard and annoying, which is why we opted for this GUI menu first. I like to think we'll eventually do a block based system to tweak directional movement system, but it would most likely be a small scale separate system that does not adjust your thrust at all if you remove or adjust it. That does mean it would be a bit harder if not impossible to fit it on a small ship, but as not having it would just result in 25% 25% 25% + 25% rot priotization, it would just be A-Ok as those small ships already reach a large thrust to mass ratio early on.

    However, it would most likely not work like any of our current systems do, which is adding another different mechanic to the block building game. Could make it more complicated than we would like.
    Yes i agree fully, but does the current shield system qualify as either?

    Actually kinda like that idea, and would love to see it implemented in some way!
     

    jayman38

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    I'd like to see these kinds of "adjustable" things like thrust adjustment integrated into the new command chairs we will eventually see in game. that way, someone could sit down at the "engineering" chair, and get direct access to these real-time adjusters and add incredible value to real-time ship management.
     
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    i would have just preferred the extra depth that having to fudge with the blocks would have been(the annoyance on the other hand), over clicking a few buttons and waiting.
    same

    There's a clear difference between hard and annoying,
    there may be a difference, but its really not clear. some people prefer one way some prefer the other, either wouldve worked, and the one you chose is fine.
     
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    it applies at all sizes, and was a direct reply to your comment.

    if you think a lone fighter should be breaking something more than 14x its size... thats probably considered unreasonable. although if you optimized your small fighter to be like 80% ion guns, a ship 14x your size would need to be a similar % of shieldyness to really be invincible to you... which would be unreasonable for the avg ship anyway, so if you properly optimize, youre looking at killing shit even more than 14x your size if you went off the deep end gunning up your fighter...

    also, fleets of small fighters can absolutely shred large ships. the caveat is they have to actually be built well. sure a swarm spam of junk ass ships will crash a server before accomplishing anything... but that doest mean anything except someone built a shitty fighter.




    only if they dont know how to make their fighters fight
    I wasn't implying we just nerf shields to 60% with no additional adjustments. there are other number to tweak that make the game more balance-able. shield regen can be improved dramatically and even armor hp could be boosted to compensate. Once the chamber system comes out there's gong to be a lot more free space in larger ships for shield
     

    sayerulz

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    Can we not have the

    "I want to be Luke Skywalker and kill the deathstar/titan with my 12 meter long fighter" discussion again?

    SMALL SHIPS BEING ABLE TO KILL MASSIVE CAPITALS 1v1 IS NOT BALANCED. IT'S A DUMB IDEA. STOP.
     
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    changing their default settings
    The only problem with warheads is that they don't deal enough damage. How could you change them for the better and still leave the damage and radius as is?
    [doublepost=1498253553,1498253473][/doublepost]
    Can we not have the

    "I want to be Luke Skywalker and kill the deathstar/titan with my 12 meter long fighter" discussion again?

    SMALL SHIPS BEING ABLE TO KILL MASSIVE CAPITALS 1v1 IS NOT BALANCED. IT'S A DUMB IDEA. STOP.
    They already do it much more efficently. It's a lot better than naked corvettes in stellaris but 50 1k mass fighters can totally beat a 100k ship or more.
     
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    The only problem with warheads is that they don't deal enough damage. How could you change them for the better and still leave the damage and radius as is?
    obviously thats the change i am referring to. Being what they are they should do more damage. should they not? or is making them stronger a major balance concern? because with their default settings i dont see the problem in buffing them!
     
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    can we stop confusing wanting to make fighters more viable in pvp with fighters being able to 1v1 battleships?
     

    sayerulz

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    can we stop confusing wanting to make fighters more viable in pvp with fighters being able to 1v1 battleships?
    What else would you mean? Fighters are already like twice as effective for mass as anything big. So you mean what, 3 times? 4 times? They are already balanced.
     
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    does sound interesting

    I think the difference between amount and strength is like this

    amount would be a huge blob
    something that would shine in taking loads of alpha damage
    repairing that will be a nightmare cause of the amount

    strength would be how much percent *always less then 100* the damage gets divided before it impacts the shield amount

    so

    for fast repairing ships it looks like 20% amount << not 0 cause that means low amounts of damage go past its alpha limit, 40 repeair,40 strength

    a bit like eve online ^^ but then without kinetic/ thermo/ explosive/ forgot this one

    oh yea.. electro magnetic
     
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